To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

Can't imagine my ma sat outside with hot water bottles and blankets like some pariah because the government said so.

Pub beer gardens have been doing this for years. What the fuck is wrong with blankets and HWBs. Some folk are weird.

Yeah, that would really work for my frail 94yo dad

Is he allergic to blankets?

And I don't care about covid anymore. Works both ways.

Probably one of the most ridiculous responses. Are you 12?

I think they should remove all restrictions and let the sensible people be sensible (which they are) and the non-sensible people be non-sensible (which they are).

[quote pinkearedcow]@GiveMeNovocain the reason the circuit breaker in Wales didn't work is because it wasn't long enough - Drakeford acknowledged that.

I am in Wales, so we will still not be allowed to meet in our homes from tomorrow. I don't think people will stick to this though, because of people in England and Scotland being allowed to do so.

I think the changes need to go ahead. We have to try. The progress of this variant will be watched like a hawk. It's not going to suddenly run rampage overnight. If the signs begin to point to it being more transmissable, then action can be taken.

Having said all that, I wouldn't rule out an emergency No. 10 presser later today...[/quote]
The signs already point to it being more transmissible, and it is being ignored, so I do not share your optimism taht johnson will stop being a reckless twat tomorrow.

The evidence the UK currently has is it is up to 50% more transmissible. The government is currently ignoring advice/warnings from SAGE, Joint Biosecurity Centre and Independent SAGE.

All that talk about data not dates was just a lie it seems. They have the data. They are ignoring it.

As ever, where we are today is not the point - you have to look forward three weeks. SAGE have looked forward. And are worried.

@RachelRaven

I'm inside small rooms with no ventilation with 5 or 6 different classes of between 20 and 30 children 5 days a week. Why has that ok but I've not been allowed to go inside a restaurant?

You know the answer to this.

It is because this isn't about you as an individual.

Teaching is an essential activity for the health of the nation. Eating out is only essential in terms of economics, it isn't essential in itself. Therefore it was paused.

But you know this really (because if you don't I would be a bit worried about you being in education!)

I think we all know, this new varient couldn't have reareed its head at the worst time.

It seems inevitable that it's going to become the dominate strain and run through us.

I don't see what continuing the lock down will do now, even if they manage to jab all those people in hot spots we know it takes three weeks for the jab to be effective.

I think most people would rather open up, have freedom again before another proper lock down?. I'd certainly like to take dc to the cinema, the theatre, eat outside at a few pubs, go on a UK holiday, have lots of play dates for dc friends... Visit some musuems, London, get needed shoes, swim and then yes, lock us down again if necessary!

Pictures I think the point is, whilst every one else was locked down or told to wear masks in enclosed spaces, it seems that people working in education have been treated as other, like masks don't apply in their small crowded spaces etc.

I believe it's been said that the government were surprised how compliant the public were during the first lockdown and I believe the majority were. We understood but I think many people thought a sharp lockdown would get it in check and then allow managment.

Unfortunately the government did not and still are not performing their part of the bargain, the good management. Christmas is a good example of this.

The vaccine rollout was such a big step forward the government have ruined this by their inaction on India. I've just listened to Matt Hancock on Andrew Marr, still saying we have robust border controls and they didn't have the data on India. The facts are that it would have been easy to wack India on the red list and make everyone quarantine in a hotel at individuals expense, why was this not done? It was very very easy to do. We have been told that sections of the population have been disproportionately affected, the very same group that won't take the vaccine and were going to India. The amount of people that flew back from India just before the red list should have been ringing alarm bells, why were so many going to India? The government decided not to take a cautious preventative approach, they decided not to act quickly and take a 'just in case' stance that would have affected only a small group of people returning. Instead they are expecting the whole of the UK to potentially swallow a delay in easing of restrictions and potentially (hopefully not) another lock down.

I hope they remove all the restrictions, I will be taking full advantage of being able to go out etc. I've had enough of doing what I can to support the rules whilst others do what they want.

I must be the only one but I've quite enjoyed meeting people outdoors (except in the hail, of course!).

Andrew marr said our border controls on people from red countries are leaky and its all done on nothing but trust.

Just read a very decent article in the Observer, amongst other more panicked publications since Friday.
I like all of us had been willing on Monday's progress but now feel Boris should be appearing today to halt plans for tomorrow, inconvenient, infuriating though this is, I do believe we are heading into risk territory at a time we are only just starting to see the benefits of vaccinations.
We were so close at successfully sticking to the roadmap, but it's clear again "too soon " applies.
I despair but can't imagine this is going to go well

Not if they are made to isolate in a hotel. The fact is they didn't want to do this, allowing people to isolate at home when returning from India was absolute madness. Matt Hancock said that they were checking people who were isolating, what a load of crap.

They never should have allowed the extra flights to come in, they should have made people pay to isolate - can't afford it, then don't come back. The whole country could now be affected because of a few very very selfish people.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/johnson-must-think-again-on-plans-to-relax-covid-rules

And mixing in the airports/ taxis/ public transport home.

Other countries manage a separate area for arrivals from red countries and straight on to a bus to a quarantine hotel. No mixing with others. It’s really not hard.

[quote Puttingouthefirewithgasoline]@RoseRedRoseBlue

Yes it's the tagging.

There is a tagging etticute and there is no need to tag people in these circumstances. I tag people when I'm asked a question like, what was that TV programme or beauty product.

It feels aggressive to be tagged on a thread like this for every single response, it seems to me like someone saying, my response to you is so vital and crucial, you cannot miss what I have to say.[/quote]
That's YOUR thoughts, your way is no more 'right' than other peoples. If you don't want to be tagged, you have the option of turning it off.

'etiquette'

[quote GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]@MyOtherProfile perhaps use your imagination. Many of us have relatives who are a 2 hour drive away and too frail to sit outside for hours, or live at the other end of the country. I haven't seen my closest friend for well over a year now, and Zoom is just not the same.

I got so sick of the earlier message of 'all you're being asked to do is stay at home'. That was never true: we were being asked to forego great swathes of our social lives and activities. It's particularly unfair on teenagers and young adults: they have given up the most.[/quote]
I'm one of those yet we made it work. Drove two hours, sat in their garden, drove home.

I've been for endless walks and coffees on benches wrapped up against the weather so I could see my friends and family.

The evidence the UK currently has is it is up to 50% more transmissible. The government is currently ignoring advice/warnings from SAGE, Joint Biosecurity Centre and Independent SAGE

Saying something is 50% more transmissible is a pointless statistic without the numbers behind it so if it was 1 it's now 1.5, they know this and that's why they use percentages rather than the actual numbers.

@Againstmachine

The evidence the UK currently has is it is up to 50% more transmissible. The government is currently ignoring advice/warnings from SAGE, Joint Biosecurity Centre and Independent SAGE

Saying something is 50% more transmissible is a pointless statistic without the numbers behind it so if it was 1 it's now 1.5, they know this and that's why they use percentages rather than the actual numbers.

I think you are perhaps still not undersatnding exponential growth and the issue with that.

The percentage is ALL that matters because it shows how it can take off.

What will/won't stop it taking off is the human choices.

The maths is not up for debate and the starting number is irrelevant, the line is the line if unchecked.

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

Pictures I think the point is, whilst every one else was locked down or told to wear masks in enclosed spaces, it seems that people working in education have been treated as other, like masks don't apply in their small crowded spaces etc.

I agree with you that teachers have been treated apppalingly, that wasn't the way I understood the post I responded to.

@Santastealer

There is always going to be some new variant. If it wasn’t the Kent one it was the Indian one etc. Covid isn’t going away, delaying opening up will just postpone things, it won’t help in the long run.

We have to start living normally now. It’s not fair or right to ban people from seeing their own family.

Yes there will be other variants, there have been a few, but not all of them are variants of concern (voc) and we need to pay attention to those.

The Kent variant killed 80,000 earlier this year. Can you imagine how many it would have killed if we hadn't locked down?

Do we need a repeat of that to prove to
people that we cannot just ignore these Voc?

Yes the vaccines are amazing, but we need to check that they hold back new Voc.

If we want to keep moving forwards and not end up in a lockdown again, we need to pause lifting restrictions until we know we can deal with the upcoming number of cases & hospitalisation

Leaving it until it's seeded on the community is ridiculous.

We don't have enough people fully vaccinated yet. When we do the restrictions will be able to be lifted with much less risk.

I don't see how we can avoid ending up in a harsher lock down, we are still in lock down now.
It's seeded, it's here, many more from the India and other red countries are arriving as we speak with no more checks than a... We will trust you...

I'd rather have a some normality again for a while, then lock down again if necessary.

this variant doesn’t scare me at all

@Imnothereforthedrama

That's grand. However, the people who actually are qualified to make these assessments ARE.

Almost summer there have been a few threads on @ at people, general consesus is not to do it repeatedly to evry single time you respond to any posts on any thread.

It seems needy, hey listen to what I'm saying, especially when people are on the thread anyway.

It also clogs up people's email.

The maths is not up for debate and the starting number is irrelevant, the line is the line if unchecked.

Absolute rubbish, chucking percentage out like 50% to scare people is wrong and yes I do want the figures behind it they are not irrelevant. And the exponential growth shouldn't happen with vaccines should it.