Indian variant in London

[Tealightsandd]

Huge number of cases in London - and it's spreading rapidly. London is higher risk already due to density of population and being frontline of international travel.

The other areas with high rates of the Indian variant are doing surge vaccination. They've been sent extra supply and vaccines are being offered to all over 18s.

Why aren't Londoners being offered the same protection?

Bearing in mind (for the many who don't care about Londoners) that people are much more likely to travel to and from London across the country - potentially spreading it out elsewhere. So it's in the interests of the whole country to give London the same protection offered to Bolton and Blackburn.

London - with a population 1:6 of the country cannot be analysed as ‘one city’ as it’s not a ‘city’ it’s a county incorporating 32 boroughs

London - with a population 1:6 of the country cannot be analysed as ‘one city’ as it’s not a ‘city’ it’s a county incorporating 32 boroughs

32 boroughs with widely differing characteristics, not one homogeneous whole. One size does not fit all; what might do for Bromley wouldn't suit Tower Hamlets, and vice versa.

The percentages they show on the map further up the spread are a joke and pure scaremongering for some areas, in South Northants which is rural and affluent (so doesn’t fit the narrative of where these cases are coming from!) it’s 5 cases which have all been traced back to a primary school outbreak yet they are speaking about it in the same way as Bolton where clearly there is an issue. Also the vaccines work against the variant there is no need to panic at all, this is no longer about cases if hospital admissions and deaths stay low. Honestly some people just love to latch onto drama!

What? How is this the Governments fault?
It's spreading within the Indian community, like it did in Bolton. and they have to be held responsible for their actions. this has nothing to do with the government.

It absolutely is one city. Too interconnected to be separated.

Millions travel across several boroughs on busy tube and bus network to get to work and school every single day.

This below covers 10 months - so the majority of the pandemic - March until December.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/covid-death-toll-uk-deprived-areas-worst-hit-b901339.html

Deprived London areas worst hit by coronavirus

Newham, which actually is in London has the highest death rate.

Newham has the highest death rate from coronavirus in England and Wales, according to official figures for March to December, with London the second worst affected region.

Quite why it bothers some people so much the suggestion that an area at increased risk should get protection ( as well as any other area at higher risk) is beyond me.

These people resent the 'focus'? What kind of weirdo envies the 'focus' of being higher risk

Data to December totally excludes the second wave

We also all travel across a wide area hence ‘north west’

It’s not a competition but your playing victim when there are numbers totally displaying the reasons for action

You really aren't making any sense. With anything you say tbh.

There is less car ownership in London than anywhere else. Millions travel within the one city on crowded public transport. Which spreads a virus.

Playing victim?

Nope presenting the data - and suggestion that the areas at higher risk get surge vaccination.

That means all the areas at higher risk... because like we all agree, it's not a competition.

The concern over the Indian variant has NOTHING to do with deaths - at least at the moment. It's entirely to do with the growth in cases.

The "R" value for the Indian variant is currently very high, and surge testing hasn't worked to contain it. If things continue as they are, then it's going to form the dominant strain in a third wave.

We still don't know what the efficacy of vaccines is against this strain - if they're even slightly less effective, it could totally negate their ability to block onward transmission, which would be a game changer as far as our hopes of herd immunity go.

@Watapalava

We also all travel across a wide area hence ‘north west’

It’s not a competition but your playing victim when there are numbers totally displaying the reasons for action

So, your point is?

How does London being included with the other areas of increased rates impact you or the areas as a whole?

Like you say, it isn't a competition....so ALL areas at high risk should be surge vaccinated.

Also the vaccines work against the variant there is no need to panic at all, this is no longer about cases if hospital admissions and deaths stay low. Honestly some people just love to latch onto drama!

Prof Richard Dingwall of NERVTAG has said 'We need to stop panicking about every new variant that comes along,'

He said it seemed people who have been vaccinated "have only a very low risk of infection" from the Indian variant - and infection was "likely to be mild".

He said it "seems to be slightly more transmissible" than the UK and South African variants and could become the dominant variant in the UK.

"The consequence of this would be a greater number of mild illnesses with little risk of a surge in hospitalisations or deaths," he said. BBC

It absolutely is one city. Too interconnected to be separated.

Still doesn't mean you treat all the boroughs the same. I guarantee you'd find Newham has a lower rate of vaccine takeup than Bromley, and a higher incidence of the factors which put people more at risk of serious illness and death. Where are you going to focus your efforts?

It's like a toddler who's getting the sweeties but is jealous because their classmate is getting them too. But...I want to be the only one...stamp foot, scream, cry, tantrum...

Sorry - I am sure this is a stupid question. But if rates are so high again in places, does that mean that vaccinations are not working?

Interested as I work in the NHS in Bromley and yet live in the Kent countryside. Bromley is vastly different to inner London and our figures at work don't reflect a growing problem currently. But the point goes to what another poster said, I commute in,by car luckily, but I'm still in the supermarket and in clinics for work etc the next home to my sleepy village in Kent where I visit the pub and my children go to school.

if rates are so high again in places, does that mean that vaccinations are not working?

No, so far it seems the outbreaks are happening among young people who haven't been vaccinated yet. At least two incidences are associated with secondary schools.

Alonim

Burnley etc have huge areas of multicultural families living together coupled with vaccine hesitancy

Plus many won’t acfually be ill don’t forget

@cheninblanc

Interested as I work in the NHS in Bromley and yet live in the Kent countryside. Bromley is vastly different to inner London and our figures at work don't reflect a growing problem currently. But the point goes to what another poster said, I commute in,by car luckily, but I'm still in the supermarket and in clinics for work etc the next home to my sleepy village in Kent where I visit the pub and my children go to school.

The whole borough had 2 cases today. It's hardly Bolton on 189 cases.

There are some little pockets in Hounslow, Ealing, Brent and Harrow that might be London community transmission, but very little that's obvious elsewhere.

guarantee you'd find Newham has a lower rate of vaccine takeup than Bromley, and a higher incidence of the factors which put people more at risk of serious illness and death. Where are you going to focus your efforts?

Newham might have a lower rate of take up but Bromley is definitely behind much of the UK in its rollout.

Bromley was still doing over 45s last weekend. Perhaps one reason why it currently has one of the highest rates of infection in London.

Bromley actually does have factors which put people at higher risk of hospitalision and death. It's less ethnically diverse than Newham - but it has one of London's largest elderly populations - several 100,000 thousand of them.

Vaccines are thought to be less effective in older people - so they rely to an extent on other people around them being vaccinated.

It's also sheer numbers. Percentage wise Bromley will be more affluent than other boroughs, and separately have a lower percentage of ethnic minorities - but there are still more vulnerable people (whether CV or ethnic minority or both) there than most other parts of the UK.

Some people are really desperate to downplay London's risk and vulnerability aren't they.

The toddlers who want to be the only ones.

@UserEleventyNine

Also the vaccines work against the variant there is no need to panic at all, this is no longer about cases if hospital admissions and deaths stay low. Honestly some people just love to latch onto drama!

Prof Richard Dingwall of NERVTAG has said 'We need to stop panicking about every new variant that comes along,'

He said it seemed people who have been vaccinated "have only a very low risk of infection" from the Indian variant - and infection was "likely to be mild".

He said it "seems to be slightly more transmissible" than the UK and South African variants and could become the dominant variant in the UK.

"The consequence of this would be a greater number of mild illnesses with little risk of a surge in hospitalisations or deaths," he said. BBC

It absolutely is one city. Too interconnected to be separated.

Still doesn't mean you treat all the boroughs the same. I guarantee you'd find Newham has a lower rate of vaccine takeup than Bromley, and a higher incidence of the factors which put people more at risk of serious illness and death. Where are you going to focus your efforts?

He said it seemed people who have been vaccinated "have only a very low risk of infection" from the Indian variant - and infection was "likely to be mild".

Well this for starters is total crap, as vaccines don't prevent infections.

And quite why a Social scientist is offering opinions on something clearly they know little about is beyond me - as is why you think they're worth repeating!

I'm shocked at the questions and logic on this thread.

The Indian variant has developed quickly in certain borough's such as Bolton. there are reasons for this.

it has also recently developed in certain borough's of London. there are similar reasons for this, this needs to be addressed. how anyone can argue anything other than this, is astonishing.

Thank you for explaining whether this spread means the vaccine is working or not.

I’m sure the surge testing will happen in London when it becomes a proper concern - like Bolton. We’re not being neglected.

I’m shocked at the notion the rest of the country is given preferential treatment over London. The whole lockdown/restrictions lifting has been on London’s timetable. Lifted restrictions in June when London’s rates were lower which ended up in the North West spending most of the summer under restrictions. Then after the tiers fiasco as soon as rates increase in London the whole country is locked down despite rates being lower in the North West than they’d been a few months previously.

Unfortunately you're right @Lalalablahblahblah

The cruel irony for Londoners is no one has suffered more over the last two or three decades than them. That much resented 'focus' people like those on this thread have such a chip on their shoulde about. I don't know what they envy most. The overcrowding, the very high rates of gun and and knife crime, the pollution, the highest rates by far of homelessness. The mind boggles. They're blinded by bigoted hate.

And it suits the government. For all the cries of 'London centric", the government doesn't care about a Labour voting city (not that the Labour Party does either for London).

The government is keen to downplay London's rates - even at a cost of lives - because lots of money is made out of it. The thick bigots, like those on this thread, can't tell the difference between people making money out of London and actual Londoners.

10,000 Londoners already dead. More avoidable deaths will happen so that the government can pander to the bigots like those on this thread.