Choosing not to get vaccine

[InnerDiscomfort]

Not looking to start a fight, but interested if you have made the decision not to get the vaccine and have no condition that you know of that would stop you, why not?

Family members abroad have decided not to get the vaccine (Pfizer I think). Vague concerns about it not being safe and/ or tested enough. They both work outside the home and have families. Fairly fit and healthy so unlikely to be seriously affected by COVID, under 50 years of age.

It's not something I agree with but up to them I guess. I'm also unlikely to get ill but had my first vaccine mainly to help stop the spread (and I'd like to go abroad!)

So if you haven't had it, I'm interested in your reasoning if you would care to share.

Such an interesting thread and agree with those saying it's so important to provide transparent accurate information to allow people to make up their minds.

Another argument for herd immunity - if we don't vaccinate those in their 20/30's (who do contribute greatly to transmission as mildly symptomatic and out and about) then there will be another surge, especially as new variants of concern arise. This may not make them seriously unwell but there are enough vulnerable people (older, unable to mount a vaccine induced protective immune response, the 5-10% of over 50's not vaccinated) who may become severely unwell and end up in hospital and die. And even if you don't care about those people you don't know, just you and your family, every time the hospital is overwhelmed by covid, every other Healthcare condition gets sub optimal care. Emergency surgery (trauma appendix head injury etc) is affected. And that does affect younger people. And the government has no choice under those circumstances other than to lockdown.
The economic implications of lockdown predominantly affect the young. Our younger generation will be paying for this for years to come and that will affect their long term health and happiness.
This is the community arguement. So today, you may factor the potential risk of a rare vaccine side effect not worth taking, but the greater risk of long term pandemic conditions continuing off and on for years need to be considered as well.
As humans we aren't great at thinking longer term, but it's important to consider it.

I don’t want a vaccine that is causing very severe side effects in many people. Most side effects aren’t reported. The true scale of the severity of these side effects isn’t being shared with the public. That’s not being an anti vaxxer, it’s just a fact. The yellow card system is very under-utilised. A close relative of mine has had debilitating vertigo for six weeks after getting the vaccine. The doctor told her this is something they’re hearing about a lot but as dizziness is listed as a side effect on the leaflet it’s being dismissed as a ‘normal’ response. My relative can’t live a normal life at the moment. She’s found a support group of hundreds of people online who are in the same position after the vaccine. They were all healthy before. The vaccine triggered such a powerful inflammatory response in their bodies that many have been debilitated by it. But where are the stories on this in the press? Nowhere to be seen, of course, because of the relentless PR push to get us all vaccinated.

I completely agree with this. If you search around groups of people who have chronic fatigue or other chronic illnesses, you will find a lot more very adverse effects. Those people have no need to be drama posters, they are simply stating what effect the vaccines are having. Not all are adversely affected, I hasten to add, but the proportion that are is concerning.

@LondonWFuck

Your post on the statistics would mean if you follow it through that you would never take any prescription what ever the disease or need.

So if that’s right fine, but not in a pandemic.

Shame that you will turn down a drug intervention when if might cure you in future.

I wonder if that is the case or whether it’s just a anti Covid vaccine thing?

I think the latter which by definition makes you selfish in a disease such as this.

@CrunchyCarrot

That’s utterly wrong for severe side effects.
It beggars belief you can be so ignorant on this and you clearly have no understanding of side effect profiles and population health care outcomes atall.

I think keeping an eye on the Indian variant is imminently sensible and any of these variants that prove to be affecting more young people negatively probably would be enough of a reason for me to stop holding off and get my arse vaccinated.

@Frequentflier

But we don’t know do we.

We don’t have the data to be able to ascertain if it’s a deadlier strain or not as of yet.

Until we do I wouldn’t personally be using it as a reason to get the vaccine. I certainly wouldn’t be using anecdotal evidence from someone on the internet who knows someone who knows someone etc. I don’t mean that offensively but anyone can come on the internet and claim they know such and such a person who was ‘perfectly healthy’ who died and so on. Most of the people in the media who claim such a thing then publish photos of clearly morbidly obese relatives. My version of healthy and theirs are clearly very different.

Do those that keep talking about herd immunity from the vaccine actually not understand natural acquired immunity or?
Genuine question...?

They’ll have to put up with a lot more needles if they get COVID.

Comments like this are just idiotic. I've had covid, barely noticed, had worse colds. No needles required, just like the overwhelming majority of people who have had covid. Let's not forget most of those who died were very ill or elderly. Covid is a mild illness for most and I suspect will be treated like flu before long.

@PetraRabbit

Chailatteplease We were told we were allowed our lives back once the old and clinically vulnerable were vaccinated. That's been done. I also notice rates of infection are low and deaths are very low. I therefore don't understand the evangelical zeal to push vaccines for the young age groups. It does seem weirdly desperate to me.

Actually that's not quite true. Many of the CV group have only has their first vaccine. Many over 60s have only had their first vaccine.

I'm group 6 and having my second next week.
My parents are late 60s and had their second this week.

I know several CV people and those 60-65y who still need to wait a few more weeks before they get their second vax.

“ However there are new variants in this country the vaccine doesn't work for. That in combination with concerns about unknown side effects, not worth it to me.”

Categorically untrue. It is thought that efficacy may be reduced against some variants but there is no conclusive evidence yet.
If you are a nurse, I hope you are not spreading misinformation.

Update for anyone interested: my vaccine centre were great and totally understood my concerns. They are offering not-AZ in the next week or two, am on my way home to look at dates to book back in for. I am so relieved.

[quote EnidSpyton]@Frequentflier

But we don’t know do we.

We don’t have the data to be able to ascertain if it’s a deadlier strain or not as of yet.

Until we do I wouldn’t personally be using it as a reason to get the vaccine. I certainly wouldn’t be using anecdotal evidence from someone on the internet who knows someone who knows someone etc. I don’t mean that offensively but anyone can come on the internet and claim they know such and such a person who was ‘perfectly healthy’ who died and so on. Most of the people in the media who claim such a thing then publish photos of clearly morbidly obese relatives. My version of healthy and theirs are clearly very different.[/quote]
It's not just anons on the internet like me who are talking about deaths in India amongst the young and healthy. There are verified reports by journalists and scientists. Quite a few MNers who are Indian or have ties in India who have been talking about it too.

You are right there is no data yet on the deadliness of the new variant or whether it affects younger people more. It might just be that more young people are out and about. There is data to show that AZ works against the Indian strain though.

@Sunglasses2

Surely if people in their 20s needed the flu vaccine then they'd be offered it? The reality is a healthy 20yo would be turned down for it if they asked for it. I've been turned down for it myself before now due to my asthma not being severe enough You might not have qualified for getting it for free, but you can still pay to get it at Boots, Superdrug etc. I did that. I think people on benefits can get it free at any age

No they wouldn't. The 20y could pay for it any time and be given it. They may not be eligible for the free vaccine but could pay £8 to have one on request.

My own 19y Dd has done just that for the last few years. She got a nasty bout of flu over her exam period when in year 10 and didn't want to risk being so poorly again at an important time so asked us to help her get a flu vaccine annually. She has hers done at the same time as I get my free one, from our local pharmacy.

Hi @InnerDiscomfort. To answer your question, I do not plan to take any of the vaccines because long term safety data is not yet available.

People seem to forget that these vaccines are not licensed, but are available under emergency authorisation. The level of emergency is different for different people, depending on our level of danger from covid.

To be clear, I have had all regular (and some not vaccinations), and I have no concerns about short term side effects. But agreeing to a medical procedure involves balancing risk. Risks of catching covid are known for my age group and are not high. Risks of the vaccine are not known, so it makes no sense to me to have it.



No, there isn’t. There is no requirement for side effects to be reported. It’s an entirely optional process. The data available on side effects is very far from comprehensive.

I suggest you get informed.

This. IMO people who aren’t getting the vaccine are the ones who have read extensively about it. They with this info, they are making their own minds up. The vast majority of people who have the vaccine are just going along with it without doing any research themselves.

I had the first jab, and I wish I hadn’t. I’m currently on the third round of antibiotics to try to sort out a serious infection which I developed as a result. I’m not getting the second jab.

@pinkmagnolias

Dear me.
You don’t understand do you.

[quote Justa47]@LondonWFuck

Your post on the statistics would mean if you follow it through that you would never take any prescription what ever the disease or need.

So if that’s right fine, but not in a pandemic.

Shame that you will turn down a drug intervention when if might cure you in future.

I wonder if that is the case or whether it’s just a anti Covid vaccine thing?

I think the latter which by definition makes you selfish in a disease such as this.[/quote]
Thanks for calling me selfish 😂 luckily, the staff at my vaccine centre just now took a totally different stance and I shall be rebooking for a different vaccine in the coming days.

@FenceSplinters

I had the first jab, and I wish I hadn’t. I’m currently on the third round of antibiotics to try to sort out a serious infection which I developed as a result. I’m not getting the second jab.

☹️ I hope you are on the mend soon

The only one I know who's turned it down is my mother in law and she's a bit..."truth seeker-y"...

I'm 33 so haven't been offered it yet, I'm happy to have it but would ideally like to wait until after a big deadline I'm working towards, being ill for a week would be very unhelpful!

@Serenschintte

Yes, it’s still in the testing phase and frankly I don’t want to be a guinea pig. I’m under 50. Reasonably healthy. Have never had the flu vaccine and don’t see the need to have this. I have absolutely nothing against those who choose to have it. My perspective is my body my choice.

Agree on all these counts.

Specifically I am concerned about the risk of antibody dependent enhancement, and that animal studies that investigate this potential risk have either not been conducted or not been shared. The manufacturer FDA briefing which would address this ordinarily under a non emergency review merely states "risk unknown". I don't need that unknown risk for a disease that I have no fear of.

@Toty

They’ll have to put up with a lot more needles if they get COVID.

Comments like this are just idiotic. I've had covid, barely noticed, had worse colds. No needles required, just like the overwhelming majority of people who have had covid. Let's not forget most of those who died were very ill or elderly. Covid is a mild illness for most and I suspect will be treated like flu before long.

I was just going to post the same. The huge majority of people who catch Covid don't have any input from a HCP at all. Like you said, no needles.

It is scare-mongeing rubbish... bit like the whole "if you hate a mask, you will hate a ventilator".

Also, maybe some people with a needle phobia would be ok in an emergency situation... I know I am not, and have refused treatment many times.

@Justa47 yeah I know but I wanted to wait a little while longer in case any new developments come out about those vaccines the same way the AZ ones came out further down the line after so many people had their doses.