Choosing not to get vaccine

[InnerDiscomfort]

Not looking to start a fight, but interested if you have made the decision not to get the vaccine and have no condition that you know of that would stop you, why not?

Family members abroad have decided not to get the vaccine (Pfizer I think). Vague concerns about it not being safe and/ or tested enough. They both work outside the home and have families. Fairly fit and healthy so unlikely to be seriously affected by COVID, under 50 years of age.

It's not something I agree with but up to them I guess. I'm also unlikely to get ill but had my first vaccine mainly to help stop the spread (and I'd like to go abroad!)

So if you haven't had it, I'm interested in your reasoning if you would care to share.

A - 'you need to get your covid vaccine because covid doesn't discriminate and even young people are dying.'

B - 'actually the average age of mortality from covid is 82 and I've more change of dying from drowning or a car crash.'

A - 'well you need to get it to protect the frail and elderly.'

B - 'but surely they can get it to protect themselves like with the flu vaccine every year.'

A - '......you ignorant/selfish/stupid antivaxer/conspiracy theorist.'

@frogsarejumpy the data isn’t available for us to make an informed choice though.

There is no requirement for side effects to be reported. There is a reliance on individuals to log their own symptoms with the yellow card system. Most don’t.

So how can anyone make an informed choice when the true scale of side effects isn’t known?

I don't know any refusers but plenty of 'will wait at the back of the queue' types.

@BonnieDundee

The reason is posted is because it is utterly selfish not to have it

You live in a community do something for it.

Jeez.

@Donitta they are under no obligation to tell you if they have or haven't been vaccinated.

What difference does it make to you anyway?

I was swept along via work in having the vaccine after feeling sceptical about it. Reading a lot around the AZ vaccine I thought it’ll only be time before the age limit was introduced. I also thought this would’ve increased to under 40s as soon as the elections were over and a big push was done on 40s age group. Since having it, I’ve experienced really heavy period on a par to after childbirth, heart palpitations, dizziness, ringing in ear, general fatigue and painful joints. I won’t be having the 2nd.

To those people who say the vaccines have been tested and gone through safety checks etc. Why then was blood clots and blood problems, however minimal, not on the list of side effects from the beginning? Why is the government/pharmaceutical company not responsible for any lawsuit if they are confident their vaccines are safe?

[quote Justa47]@BonnieDundee

The reason is posted is because it is utterly selfish not to have it

You live in a community do something for it.

Jeez.[/quote]
So exercising one's right to bodily autonomy is selfish now, is it?

My mum is choosing not to have it. She's not really articulated clearly why to me. She's not anti vaccine - we all had our vaccines growing up. I actually think a big part of it is because she is pushing back against what she sees as governmental coercion. She's also very stubborn so once she decides something it's hard to change her mind.

I had the first AZ. Would happily take an alternative second dose. More than happily.

At 29 years old the risk/benefit isn't looking too fabulous for me for the second dose. Couple that with severe health anxiety that over the past few days has left me feeling genuinely suicidal because I couldn't handle the fear of having the second vaccine and something happening, and the judgement of others etc.

I'm not anti vax at all. I've paid for my kids to have extra vaccines which aren't on the NHS schedule. I pay for a private flu jab every year 'to protect others'. But this has terrified the absolute shit out of me.

@BonnieDundee

Just calling people out for what they are defining themselves as. Their choice to have or not but if you don’t know what you are.

Remember that when things don’t go your way and in a population sense people who don’t have the vaccine who are not contraindicated are responsible for the pain and harm caused to others. That’s just science fact.

If they can live with that they need to seek help and look deep with in.

@Daisydoor12 and interestingly none of these side effects are on the news etc as that wouldn't be allowed. Total manipulation by the government.

I am Indian ( as I have said numerous times on here, sorry). I am confused as to why people think they are low risk from Covid when entire, healthy, youngish families are being wiped out in India, and not entirely because they could not get access to medical care. I know several people who have died or now have long covid, who had access to the best private medical care. None of them had comorbidities.

I will be accused of scaremongering. But the Indian variant is already here. I am just interested to know why people think they are immune.

I’m not not going to get the vaccine, but I’m not running out to get it right now. I want to wait a few more months to a year to see what happens with it. They rushed the AZ one out & now look at the complications for it so I want to make sure that doesn’t happen with any others before I get it. I’m mid 20s with no health conditions & work in NHS (albeit on maternity leave atm), my plan is to hopefully get it when I return to work if I feel there’s been enough research.

@LondonWFuck

In a pandemic yes as you live in a community and are relying on others to do the work.

This is a pandemic and a new situation to our generation.

Tell you want close your eyes but in your head in a population sense you are not doing your bit to stop the horror and pain caused by this virus

You can’t run from that fact.

Only people contra indicated have a reason not to .

Unless you want to define for self for ever as selfish.

@Muststopeating

I will get it. Not because I believe I am likely to be hugely adversely affected by COVID (32, healthy BMI and no underlying conditions) but because I believe, very strongly, in herd immunity from vaccination. I genuinely believe not to if you can is entirely selfish.

I am currently 30 weeks pregnant though and since I suspect I will be very near the end of my pregnancy when I'm offered it, I will delay til after the baby is born. In 3 pregnancies I've never taken a single paracetamol or gaviscon (depaite very much needing them) so I am just erring on the side of caution. (Though i have always had my flu and whooping cough vaccines when pregnant).

I suspect I'll regret that decision deeply if I get COVID with a newborn though.

Not taking a single paracetamol or gaviscon during pregnancy - why on earth would you suffer needlessly rather than take incredibly safe and thoroughly tested OTC medicines?

@Newmama29

You will get moderna or Pfizer as per the news this week.

@Frequentflier

Our population density, hygiene practices, general health and nutrition, living conditions and healthcare systems are poles apart.

Yes there may be an element of the Indian vaccine being more deadly or virulent - but we don’t if it’s that or whether it’s due to the differences between our ways of life, as detailed above.

You can’t compare apples with oranges.

@Remmy123

Agains not true was on the radio Friday.
Depends what you listen too I guess.

I agree that each individual has a choice to make for themselves and wouldn’t push to vaccinate for the “greater good”. My view, regarding side effects and longer term issues that may arise, is that this can be true of any drug or treatment. I weighed the known information for the pros and cons of having and not having the vaccine and made my decision. I am also rather fatalistic and wasn’t worried about my chances should I have Covid. We do all sadly die at some stage of something. I tend to think of those walking for days to get vaccines in other countries and feel I am lucky to have the opportunity. Nothing is risk free

@Serenschintte

Yes, it’s still in the testing phase and frankly I don’t want to be a guinea pig. I’m under 50. Reasonably healthy. Have never had the flu vaccine and don’t see the need to have this. I have absolutely nothing against those who choose to have it. My perspective is my body my choice.

Don't have it if you don't want it but stop with the 'it's still in the testing stage' rubbish

@EnidSpyton

Again utter nonsense post.
There is a lot of data on the side effects
An update from MHRA last week.
And you clearly do t understand the yellow card system

Not knowing the systems is not excuse for posting incorrect information in a pandemic.

Best for you to get informed first.

@Justa47

Do you not consider yourself to be selfish because you’re being vaccinated before people who actually need it in developing countries?

Do you not consider our blanket vaccination programme, taking vaccines away from other countries who need it for their as yet unvaccinated vulnerable populations, to be selfish?

If you’re really concerned about the rest of the world and society as a whole then you should be fighting for all vulnerable people worldwide to be vaccinated before healthy young adults in a developed country.

[quote EnidSpyton]@Frequentflier

Our population density, hygiene practices, general health and nutrition, living conditions and healthcare systems are poles apart.

Yes there may be an element of the Indian vaccine being more deadly or virulent - but we don’t if it’s that or whether it’s due to the differences between our ways of life, as detailed above.

You can’t compare apples with oranges.[/quote]
I do not entirely agree. I think obesity is far more widespread in the UK, and nutrition is far poorer. As I said earlier, the people I know who have died are not those with poor living conditions or hygiene practices. They are in the top 1% and with access to better healthcare than they would get in the UK.

The UK did have the highest mortality rate in the world not too long ago, until the fantastic vaccination programme kicked in.

[quote Justa47]@EnidSpyton

Again utter nonsense post.
There is a lot of data on the side effects
An update from MHRA last week.
And you clearly do t understand the yellow card system

Not knowing the systems is not excuse for posting incorrect information in a pandemic.

Best for you to get informed first.[/quote]
No, there isn’t. There is no requirement for side effects to be reported. It’s an entirely optional process. The data available on side effects is very far from comprehensive.

I suggest you get informed.

@BonnieDundee

I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, the blatant coercion and suggestion that you will be treated differently and have access to less parts of normal society if you aren’t vaccinated puts me off even more.

Absolutely. The unethical, coercive tactics that have been used - bribing, blackmailing, and blatent bullying - should make people outraged. Instead people are outraged at people making informed decisions for themselves. The media has a lot to answer for.

Those tactics are all over this thread. Posters saying that people should be shamed for not having the vaccine

100% this. If it were a personal relationship and one individual said to the other "You have to have this medical procedure, or you can't go on holiday" or to the pub, or whatever (the only thing the gov have said unvaccinated people will always be allowed access to is essential shops) it'd be abuse. Why does coersion from the gov not come under the same banner?