Choosing not to get vaccine

[InnerDiscomfort]

Not looking to start a fight, but interested if you have made the decision not to get the vaccine and have no condition that you know of that would stop you, why not?

Family members abroad have decided not to get the vaccine (Pfizer I think). Vague concerns about it not being safe and/ or tested enough. They both work outside the home and have families. Fairly fit and healthy so unlikely to be seriously affected by COVID, under 50 years of age.

It's not something I agree with but up to them I guess. I'm also unlikely to get ill but had my first vaccine mainly to help stop the spread (and I'd like to go abroad!)

So if you haven't had it, I'm interested in your reasoning if you would care to share.

@duffeldaisy

It's not spread as much in that way. I'm talking about going to a friend's house later in the year, or back to the office, in an enclosed space. Of course there will be places where it's just not possible - but wouldn't you want to tell friends/family to keep them healthy?

Beyond all that, it is the unvaccinated who will be mainly continuing any strains and any new variants. Do what you want personally, but you do have to be aware that you're choosing to be a part of that.

If the friends/family are vaccinated, what's the need to tell them?

Muststopeating
I believe, very strongly, in herd immunity from vaccination.

How can you achieve herd immunity from a "vaccine" that doesn't prevent transmission?

@duffeldaisy you know that you can also gain immunity from infection right?

And if you’re going to a vulnerable persons house, they are more likely to have been offered the flu vaccine than you are.

Tory, as it says at the bottom, that was the finding in the BMJ, the British Medical Journal.
No, I’m not a scientific analyst, which is why I look at the figures & findings of people who are to get information.

@Toty

Researchers analyzed U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs data on more than 3,600 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 between Feb. 1 and June 17 of this year, and more than 12,600 hospitalized with the flu between Jan. 1, 2017 and Dec. 31, 2019. The average age of patients in both groups was 69.

The death rate among COVID-19 patients was 18.5%, while it was 5.3% for those with the flu. Those with COVID were nearly five times more likely to die than flu patients, according to the study published online Dec. 15 in the BMJ."

Did you just copy and paste or do you have the ability to critically analyse this data? Did it perhaps occur to you that the death rate for covid was higher because it was a novel virus not yet established in the population and medical practitioners knew nothing about it or how to treat it? You know, unlike flu.
Also let's not forget the overwhelming majority of those who caught covid in the first wave were already ill in hospital or care homes. No point posting figures when you don't know how to decipher them.

Not to mention a lot of mistakes were made in finding effective treatments, eg early ventilator protocols

@duffeldaisy

And don’t travel and live the restricted selfish life you deserve unless contraindicated.

If not the flu it’s a pandemic it’s lethal and it is new.

Be an adult and get the vaccine.

@Justa47 it’s not lethal for the vast majority of people. I have no intention of living a vastly restricted life for something that is very unlikely to do me any harm. The people who are worried about it have the choice of having the vaccine.

@SnipSnapGiraffe

Muststopeating I believe, very strongly, in herd immunity from vaccination.

How can you achieve herd immunity from a "vaccine" that doesn't prevent transmission?

It has been proven to prevent transmission in more than half of infections. Plus there has not anywhere in the world been a recorded case of two FULLY vaccinated people infecting each other. That is partly because it is hard one to prove 100% but still a very interesting fact.

[quote Justa47]@duffeldaisy

And don’t travel and live the restricted selfish life you deserve unless contraindicated.

If not the flu it’s a pandemic it’s lethal and it is new.

Be an adult and get the vaccine.[/quote]
Are posts like this actually intended to encourage people to have the jab?

Are posts like this actually intended to encourage people to have the jab? confused

It has become the new 'Stay The Fuck At Home', and 'Wear The Damn Mask'

No consideration at all for people who are anxious or struggling with any of it.

A ‘fact’ that it hasn’t been recorded. Not really a ‘fact’ that it hasn’t occurred though.

And don’t travel and live the restricted selfish life you deserve unless contraindicated

Lol, good one.
I'm not having the vaccine due to prior medical history and have absolutely no intention of restricting travel unless the choice is taken from me.

@XenoBitch

Are posts like this actually intended to encourage people to have the jab? confused

It has become the new 'Stay The Fuck At Home', and 'Wear The Damn Mask'

No consideration at all for people who are anxious or struggling with any of it.

Indeed. Anyone who is anxious or has any reservations at all is a selfish arse, "end of".

It's astonishing how black and white some people see things.

@SnipSnapGiraffe

Muststopeating I believe, very strongly, in herd immunity from vaccination.

How can you achieve herd immunity from a "vaccine" that doesn't prevent transmission?

Why is vaccine in inverted commas?

@bumbleymummy

A ‘fact’ that it hasn’t been recorded. Not really a ‘fact’ that it hasn’t occurred though.

I also said this in the post

That is partly because it is hard one to prove 100% but still a very interesting fact.

Please don't miss quote me. I get you don't want the jab and believe very strongly that people should respect your choice.

Definitely some of the name calling or nastiness on this thread is not acceptable. I am only correcting some misinformation. Giving the odd scientific finding. Go battle with the people that don't respect your right to choose

Thing is though. vaccine doesn't give immunity at an individual level much less a population level. It might even be the case that the vaccinated and partially immune are driving new variants and even driving vaccine resistant variants.

I think a lot of the misunderstanding is because we are used to sterilising vaccines. You have the vaccine, you can't be infected and so you can't transmit. This is not the case with SARS Covid-2. Aside unknown side effects because mass vaccination has been rushed out. It's OK to have concerns. It's OK to question why therapeutics that also reduce severity have not been deployed before or in addition to vaccine.

The most positive data and political viewpoint is circumspect regarding actual effects - reduction of severity - and hopeful that reduction will be sufficient to allow resumption of normal working without overwhelming the health service.

Even Fauci is distancing himself from immunity and herd immunity. Numerous countries are seeing cases rise despite achieving so called herd immunity from disease or vaccination.

Regardless we are still going for herd immunity in the UK through vaccination. So it's not really surprising that risk is assessed at an individual or family level.

@TruelyWonderI haven’t misquoted you. I stand by my observation. I’m not trying to battle with anyone though and I’m glad that you respect people’s right to make their own decision :)

I have siblings in their 50’s with diabetes who aren’t having it. They say they “don’t want to be guinea pigs” and are apparently waiting to “see how it pans out.”

It both infuriates and worries me because they have daily contact with my 80 year old parent who whilst vaccinated is obviously still somewhat at risk.

Young cousin working in care also refusing to have it.

[quote bumbleymummy]@TruelyWonderI haven’t misquoted you. I stand by my observation. I’m not trying to battle with anyone though and I’m glad that you respect people’s right to make their own decision :)[/quote]
You misquoted me by only quoting part of my post in a way that made it sound different to my meaning. I wasn't saying that no reported cases meant it couldn't happen. My full post made that clear.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Fear of needles is a bad excuse. If you end up in hospital with Covid you'll have to get over your needle fear quickly.

Here we go again, the same crap directed at those of us with a needle phobia from people who don't have a clue what it's like to have a phobia.

Ppl with needle fears can tell the vaccinator and they will make it as easy as possible.

That part is true. DH explained about my needle phobia (I was crying too much to speak) and I was well looked after. I went to the front of the queue and had a lovely lady looking after me who stayed with me the whole time. DH could have gone in with me but I was ok with my chaperone. I was also able to have the vaccine lying down. I'll be in exactly the same state for the second one but at least I know I'll be looked after.

Can I just say, that I think people with a needle phobia who are still going for their vaccinations are absolutely amongst the bravest people out there? I can't imagine how hard it must be to get yourself to do something that you have such a fear of and I think that deserves recognition.

@Doireallyneedaname

I have siblings in their 50’s with diabetes who aren’t having it. They say they “don’t want to be guinea pigs” and are apparently waiting to “see how it pans out.”

It both infuriates and worries me because they have daily contact with my 80 year old parent who whilst vaccinated is obviously still somewhat at risk.

Young cousin working in care also refusing to have it.

I can see that is very frustrating for you. Not much other than giving the evidence we can do though.

Some people may change their minds in time. I have Muslim friends that were totally against the vaccine. Then in April all went off and had the jab. A mixture of seeing millions of other people do it and wanting to travel abroad this summer.

This was reported today. Which shows the vaccination are going well and we have space for the reluctant. So long as not all in the same areas. Which is another problem in itself.

Official figures show that more than 17.6 million people have now received both jabs, with England and Northern Ireland both estimated to have given two doses to 33.6 per cent of their adult population - slightly ahead of Wales (33.4 per cent) and Scotland (33.1 per cent).

Responding to the figures for England, Dr Nikki Kanani, GP and medical director for primary care at NHS England, said: 'Yet another incredible NHS milestone has been reached as one in three adults in England have now had both doses of the Covid vaccine - meaning that they have maximum protection from the virus.

'Reaching this milestone is no accident - it is down to months of hard work and everyone in the NHS who has played a role in this is helping to protect millions of people from serious illness and saving lives.'

Meanwhile, 35,371,669 people in the UK have now received a first dose of vaccine - the equivalent of 67.2 per cent of the adult population. Wales has given a first dose to 76.2 per cent of its adult population, ahead of Northern Ireland (66.9 per cent), England (66.8 per cent) and Scotland (65.4 per cent).

It’s as simple as this

apple.news/A9MQf2yK1RjOcZ4FwlAfMmg

If you don’t have apple read this.
This is why all must have vaccine unless contraindicated

www.wsj.com/articles/brazilian-towns-mass-vaccination-creates-oasis-of-well-being-11620392401

I know of a few in their 80s not having the vaccine.......not sure why

DH has a needle phobia. He fainted when having a pin prick on finger once.

He went for the first dose. And he's going for the second.

So proud of him as it's taken so much guts to go