Choosing not to get vaccine

[InnerDiscomfort]

Not looking to start a fight, but interested if you have made the decision not to get the vaccine and have no condition that you know of that would stop you, why not?

Family members abroad have decided not to get the vaccine (Pfizer I think). Vague concerns about it not being safe and/ or tested enough. They both work outside the home and have families. Fairly fit and healthy so unlikely to be seriously affected by COVID, under 50 years of age.

It's not something I agree with but up to them I guess. I'm also unlikely to get ill but had my first vaccine mainly to help stop the spread (and I'd like to go abroad!)

So if you haven't had it, I'm interested in your reasoning if you would care to share.

“ Yes, I posted about the person who had died and the person who is in hospital. I don't know them personally. They are both friends of a relative of mine. Pretty awful.”

That really is pretty awful. The statistics against knowing two people to have suffered from clots in such a short time, with such extremely low incidences - across several countries- is truly extraordinary.
Unless they’re related and have some underlying condition that’s genetic perhaps?

@Badtiming21

Pandemic - no normal rules and people are showing utter ignorance on public health, drug side effects and risk.

It’s a moral duty by any standard.

@TruelyWonder
science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6529/eabf4063
The studies continue to show lasting immunity and from a variety of natural methods which cannot be detected from a simple antibody test. The same study shows that vaccines trigger the same or similar immune response and so I would argue that both methods are equal in their protection.

I see not many people have responded to the poster several pages back who told of how her young and healthy friend left behind two small children after losing her life from a vaccine related blood clot. I'm fairly certain that same woman wouldn't have died leaving behind her poor children if she'd had the virus itself.
One million mothers get vaccinated. One of them tragically dies. But that means the rest get to live in a normal world without constant lockdowns. And more importantly, all of their kids get to live in that world too.

Yes, when you get vaccinated you’re rolling the dice. But the alternative is for you and your kids and everyone else to live in this miserable world of constant Covid and lockdowns forever. I’ll be honest - I would happily take a risk and even sacrifice my life so my kids could live a normal life.

And trying to move your guilt on to me in this is crazy.

You've completely made that up I simply called you out on your emotional blackmail. You don't like that do you? You think everyone must do what you say

@duffeldaisy

“ Yes, I posted about the person who had died and the person who is in hospital. I don't know them personally. They are both friends of a relative of mine. Pretty awful.”

That really is pretty awful. The statistics against knowing two people to have suffered from clots in such a short time, with such extremely low incidences - across several countries- is truly extraordinary.
Unless they’re related and have some underlying condition that’s genetic perhaps?

No they aren't related.

From the research I have seen the antibodies levels do last but are normally a lot lower. Therefore the amount of time they will last is expected to be less. You are going to get different research having different results. That is science for you. They can only look at all these the research and draw a conclusion. The general thinking across the scientific community is what I have started.

I will check out your link later though

@Donitta

I see not many people have responded to the poster several pages back who told of how her young and healthy friend left behind two small children after losing her life from a vaccine related blood clot. I'm fairly certain that same woman wouldn't have died leaving behind her poor children if she'd had the virus itself. One million mothers get vaccinated. One of them tragically dies. But that means the rest get to live in a normal world without constant lockdowns. And more importantly, all of their kids get to live in that world too.

Yes, when you get vaccinated you’re rolling the dice. But the alternative is for you and your kids and everyone else to live in this miserable world of constant Covid and lockdowns forever. I’ll be honest - I would happily take a risk and even sacrifice my life so my kids could live a normal life.

My kids wouldn't live a normal life without their mother though.

Just because you're willing to take that risk doesn't mean everyone else has to.

For some people it's not just a simple bit of nerves surrounding the vaccine.

Don't know if you saw my post up thread or a thread I made yesterday but I have severe anxiety and have been suicidal for the past few days because I'm that afraid of the vaccine. I skipped off happily for the first dose (AZ) until all this came out. Even the government have come out and said the risk to me from this vaccine is higher than the risk of covid itself.

At what point to we start to become concerned that for some, the 'cure' is worse than the disease itself?

I have seen your threads/posts @whataballbag and I totally empathise with you.

2 of my closest friends had AZ this morning. They aren't concerned. That's great for them. What's also great is that they totally understood why, for me, AZ is not an option, when I told them I wouldn't be going ahead with my jab today given that I'd found out it would be AZ.

And if I have a moral obligation to take the second dose of the vaccine where does my moral obligation end? What else am I expected to do for the benefit of other people?

I might well have a moral obligation to others but you can bet your damn bottom dollar that I care more about my children having to grow up with no mother, one of them having go and live with an abusive arsehole he hasn't seen for 7 years because we don't have anyone else, than I do about protecting someone else.

My kids wouldn't live a normal life without their mother though. Just because you're willing to take that risk doesn't mean everyone else has to.
The vast majority have done though. Because we’re adults and we know that we have to fix this situation otherwise our lives and our children’s lives are fucked. What’s the alternative? Sit at home for god knows how many years, alone and unable to go out, no friends, no schooling for your children, no life for anyone. I don’t want my child to grow up like that. He deserves me to take responsibility and get vaccinated so he can have a life. Anyone who won’t do that for their child is selfish.

you can bet your damn bottom dollar that I care more about my children having to grow up with no mother
Firstly you’re being hysterical because it’s a million to one chance of that happening. Secondly you should care more about your children growing up in a permanent lockdown than about them growing up with no mother. Because permanent lockdown and a ruined economy with no stable food supply or healthcare or other facilities is way worse than having no mother.

@Donitta

you can bet your damn bottom dollar that I care more about my children having to grow up with no mother Firstly you’re being hysterical because it’s a million to one chance of that happening. Secondly you should care more about your children growing up in a permanent lockdown than about them growing up with no mother. Because permanent lockdown and a ruined economy with no stable food supply or healthcare or other facilities is way worse than having no mother.

I'm being hysterical? Do you actually know where that word comes from?

Think about what you're saying before you force your opinions on other people.

I'm not hysterical at all, I have severe anxiety that I'm working through. And the vaccine situation has left me worse than I have EVER been. You can't try and emotionally blackmail someone who's already put themselves through the wringer over it. Doesn't work like that. It's not fair and it's not right.

So far around 7 million people have died from covid

WITH covid. In fact, within 28 days (or 60/90 depending on the country) of a positive test. Even then the PCR efficiency is questionable.

@duffeldaisy

I’ve had lots of injections over the years, vaccines, etc, blood taken when pregnant etc. and I’m not a fan of needles. But genuinely, compared with the flu jab I had a year ago, this jab was so fast and so painless I actually asked if they were sure they’d done it! If you go to a big vaccine centre, by now the staff there have been doing dozens and dozens a day, and so they are super-efficient and fast. If you have a phobia of needles then don’t look (I didn’t), but honestly I think you’ll be amazed. And yeah, way way more needles if you catch Covid and get ill. It can also trigger diabetes, so then you’d really have to get used to them.

No one is a fan of needles... but if someone comes at me with one (and it does not matter how small it is), I am out of there. If made to stay, I get combative. I become a danger to myself and other people. This is all medical procedures for me, not just needles. No pulse oximeter, blood pressure cuff... nothing. If I catch Covid and become poorly, I will take my chance. I have refused treatment for worse. There was also a poster on this board who said how pathetic she thought people with needle phobias were... she worked in a vaccine centre. She said her colleagues felt the same.

I won't have it.

I had Guillain Barre 4 years ago. I am not willing to risk it again. I simply wouldn't survive it.
I feel the vaccine is a definite risk to me. DH has had it.

@Donitta

My kids wouldn't live a normal life without their mother though. Just because you're willing to take that risk doesn't mean everyone else has to. The vast majority have done though. Because we’re adults and we know that we have to fix this situation otherwise our lives and our children’s lives are fucked. What’s the alternative? Sit at home for god knows how many years, alone and unable to go out, no friends, no schooling for your children, no life for anyone. I don’t want my child to grow up like that. He deserves me to take responsibility and get vaccinated so he can have a life. Anyone who won’t do that for their child is selfish.

So we are only doing this for our children are we? What about people who don't have kids? Are they excused from being "selfish"?

I know of 2 people who aren't getting the vaccine.
One is a young woman who is TTC and unsure of the effects it may have on an unborn child.
The other is a woman from church who says that the Lord will look after her.

If it's "selfish" not to have the vaccination, the implication is that we are all meanies who are unwilling to accept the negative side. By banding the "selfish" word around, the vaccine pushers are acknowledging there's a major negative side. If the vaccine was all round fantastic then there would be nothing to be selfish about. "Oh you selfish person turning down that lottery win...I can't believe how selfish she was saying she didn't want that last chocolate biscuit......"

The point I didn't make earlier but a couple of others have is a really important one that's rarely aired : surely it is more selfless for a 32 year old in good health in a developed country to turn down "their" vaccine and hope it could go to a vulnerable person in Brazil? Why do governments not want to do this? Also someone above told me I was wrong that all clinically vulnerable are now vaccinated. If that's true why is the government pushing the vaccine on me before people who want and need it?
This has been a great thread for me, giving me hope that there are others out there questioning the very narrow narrative.

@PetraRabbit I totally get your point about the use of "selfish". On another thread (or perhaps this one, can't remember), someone used the term "heavy lifting" for folks having the vaccine (ie the selfish unvaccinated are happy for those having the jab to do the heavy lifting). If it's all so wonderful, what "heavy lifting" is needed? Why's that term used?

@PetraRabbit

If it's "selfish" not to have the vaccination, the implication is that we are all meanies who are unwilling to accept the negative side. By banding the "selfish" word around, the vaccine pushers are acknowledging there's a major negative side. If the vaccine was all round fantastic then there would be nothing to be selfish about. "Oh you selfish person turning down that lottery win...I can't believe how selfish she was saying she didn't want that last chocolate biscuit......"

The point I didn't make earlier but a couple of others have is a really important one that's rarely aired : surely it is more selfless for a 32 year old in good health in a developed country to turn down "their" vaccine and hope it could go to a vulnerable person in Brazil? Why do governments not want to do this? Also someone above told me I was wrong that all clinically vulnerable are now vaccinated. If that's true why is the government pushing the vaccine on me before people who want and need it?
This has been a great thread for me, giving me hope that there are others out there questioning the very narrow narrative.

Not really. There doesn’t have to be (major) negative side effect for an individual to be seen as selfish - just no positive benefit.

@LondonWFuck

I have seen your threads/posts *@whataballbag* and I totally empathise with you.

2 of my closest friends had AZ this morning. They aren't concerned. That's great for them. What's also great is that they totally understood why, for me, AZ is not an option, when I told them I wouldn't be going ahead with my jab today given that I'd found out it would be AZ.

Thanks London

Someone wrote earlier that they weren’t going to tell anyone that they’d refused the vaccine.
Please do!
If you want to avoid judgment just hint at some medical reason, but don’t not tell people. If you pass it to them, their body takes a day to fight it off and they then go to visit a friend with cancer or autoimmune disease then you could be responsible for serious illness or death.

Also someone above told me I was wrong that all clinically vulnerable are now vaccinated. If that's true why is the government pushing the vaccine on me before people who want and need it?
That was me.
As I said, some CV and CEV are under 16 and the vaccine isn't yet licensed for them
Some people can't have the vaccine
Some people can have it but it won't work very well. I fall into this category. I've had two AZ jabs.

@Schrutesbeets

So far around 7 million people have died from covid

WITH covid. In fact, within 28 days (or 60/90 depending on the country) of a positive test. Even then the PCR efficiency is questionable.

I think you probably already know the counter argument to that is a lot of countries are not testing or recording their dead a accurately. So the WHO has made educated calculations. The final number is constantly rising though.