Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

981 replies

Whichjab · 06/05/2021 21:50

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

OP posts:
IndigoC · 07/05/2021 12:58

The U.K. has ordered 17 million Moderna doses.

Craftermum · 07/05/2021 13:06

I feel overwhelmed with relief! But do feel disappointed for those in the 40+ group, not fair for them.

Just want to say thank you to the majority of posters on this and previous thread, it's kept me going this last week or so. Stay safe, all.

AppleJane · 07/05/2021 13:12

@Craftermum very happy for you, keep your fingers crossed for all us 40+ Smile

This thread has helped a lot to know you're not alone in your way of thinking!

PositiveLife · 07/05/2021 14:18

@Carefulvulvadriver

Dr June Raine from the MHRA answered the question about worried 40 somethings by saying they shouldnt worry because while the overall rate was 10.5 clots per 1m doses, for people age 40 and over, it was 10.1 clots per 1m doses. But that isnt reassuring at all for people in their 40s. The rate of clots in people in their 60s and 70s is VERY low, which means the rate in people in their 40s and 50s will be MORE than 10.1 per million in order to get the over all rate for ALL over 40s down to 10.1.

Indeed, the data yday from the MHRA suggested the over 70s had a blood clot rate less than a third of those under 50 (when the data was crunched with the NHS England data on jabs given - which cant be perfect).

Also: Dr Raine's answer suggested the MHRA had rates by age, and yet they arent releasing them in full. It all stinks.

I've just cancelled my appointment and I'm waiting for more data. Having only just turned 40, I'd really like to see some better data released. I'm not anti-vax but I just don't believe that I'm able to give informed consent (given the change in policy and changing situation with covid rates/variants/vaccine data)
Oaktree55 · 07/05/2021 14:45

For those comparing to pill clot risk (1% fatality risk) the AZ clots carry 20-40% risk of fatality. Not a fair comparison.

megletthesecond · 07/05/2021 14:50

Does anyone know if the risks with AZ reduce after menopause, even if a woman is in her mid 40's?

QuietLurker · 07/05/2021 14:50

I feel the same PositiveLife. I've only been 40 a few weeks and I haven't booked my first jab yet. Also now they've raised the age for AZ twice, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again in a few weeks. I do want to be vaccinatedone but I'm not happy accepting AZ when I'm just on the borderline of the age group and the data is changing quickly (and incomplete).

whataballbag · 07/05/2021 15:07

Anyone thinking it's likely that they'll change the advice about second doses over the next few weeks?

I think given the timing of second doses the amount of clots occurring after that will start to rise shortly Sad

Schulte · 07/05/2021 15:11

Did anyone watch the press conference? Did they show any updated risk figures per age group or charts similar to the one they used last time?

Carefulvulvadriver · 07/05/2021 15:57

hi @Schulte sadly no they did not update the risk figures. All they did was say the rate per 1m in the over 50s was 10.1, which, as per my comment above was far from reassuring!

Carefulvulvadriver · 07/05/2021 16:01

although the BBC is saying this:

"The risk of a clot is roughly one in 100,000 for people in their 40s, but rises to one in 60,000 for people in their 30s. Two in a million people in their 40s died rising to four per million people in their 30s"
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57021738

but they dont say what the source is. I watched the press conference as it was broadcast on the BBC and I didnt hear them say that

Schulte · 07/05/2021 16:14

Thanks. Interesting. According to the Ema figures, if I remember correctly the risk for 40-49 was more like 1 in 50,000. Wonder where the BBC got those figures from?

Roonerspismed · 07/05/2021 16:14

Is that based on doses given?

Roboticcarrot · 07/05/2021 16:19

It's going to keep changing as it depends on levels of covid as to whether the risk of that outweighs the risk of the jab.

Roboticcarrot · 07/05/2021 16:21

@Oaktree55

For those comparing to pill clot risk (1% fatality risk) the AZ clots carry 20-40% risk of fatality. Not a fair comparison.
Not really comparable either, the % is calculated from those with clots, significantly more data is available on the pill. More instances of it but less deaths isn't necessarily better than low occurances and low deaths imo.
NursieBernard · 07/05/2021 16:30

Does anyone know what is happening about those that have had the first AZ vaccine? My 19 yr old DS had the first one back in March and is due the next one soon, we are both worried about it but not sure what to do.

nordica · 07/05/2021 16:38

@Schulte

Did anyone watch the press conference? Did they show any updated risk figures per age group or charts similar to the one they used last time?
They didn't and in my opinion this press conference had a very different feel to it in general. There was a lot of focus on the fact that the success of the rollout so far and the great way vaccines reduce transmission mean the risk of a 3rd wave is now reduced. This means they are not as much in a rush to vaccine everyone - although equally they think this change will not change the all adults by the end of July goal. They are also now in a position to see vaccine supply is looking good and there are enough alternative vaccines available. In the light of all these factors it makes sense to offer the 30s age group a choice, in particular to make it even easier for people to say yes to a vaccine when the offer comes...

In general they seemed to avoid mentioning the clots, and the MHRA person (June something) reiterated their advice had not changed in the sense that AZ is still is a safe and effective vaccine and benefits outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people. They will continue monitoring yellow card data closely.

The BBC actually cut away from the live conference while journalists were still asking questions and moved back to election coverage. Hmm

Belladonna12 · 07/05/2021 16:49

@NursieBernard

Does anyone know what is happening about those that have had the first AZ vaccine? My 19 yr old DS had the first one back in March and is due the next one soon, we are both worried about it but not sure what to do.
They think it is caused by an immune response (antibodies against platelet factor 4). It can also happen with drugs such as heparin and my understanding has always been that if it doesn't happen initially with heparin it's not going to happen. So it's extremely rare side effect with the first vaccination and would be even rarer for it to happen with the second one.
Roonerspismed · 07/05/2021 16:57

I wonder if it’s linked to autoimmunity generally?

ScarlettSunset · 07/05/2021 17:03

I'm pleased for the 30-39 age group who had been waiting and watching, but also sad that this has been announced after so many have already been jabbed, without being given a choice of vaccine and told it is AZ or nothing.

I do wonder what will happen to those of us in our 40s (or over), who still haven't had it though. After all, if it's about reducing hesitancy, then they should open the choice to all ages.

I don't know how many of us over 40 are still left waiting, but given the way they have pushed it, I doubt there's all that many. I'm concerned what the data may look like in a few weeks, and I don't feel at all reassured. Even if the risk is 1 in 100,000, that's still quite a number of people who will be affected, and I personally suspect it's a higher risk than that (of course I have no evidence, but I've also no reason to think that won't change again )

I'm also feeling fed up with people comparing the risks to other things. Even if I choose to take certain other risks, it doesn't mean I want to take this one. If at some point in the future, the data convinces me it would be a good idea to take it, then I will then, but right now, I'm just trying to make the best decision for me, based on the information I have at the moment

NursieBernard · 07/05/2021 17:04

Thanks for the response, I get the science behind it but I was wondering if they had a plan for the youngsters who had already received the first AZ. No one I speak to can give any answers except that as he was ok with the first it would be very unlikely to occur with the second. However this does not make either of us feel very confident.

Roonerspismed · 07/05/2021 17:05

If one more person talks about the risks from
The contraceptive pill I will scream

I’m sure my risks of learning to parachute dive are also higher but that doesn’t mean I choose to do it

nordica · 07/05/2021 17:13

I was wondering if they had a plan for the youngsters who had already received the first AZ.

They have been saying since the advice changed for the under 30s on April 7th that those who've had the 1st dose should have their 2nd as planned. It does seem like the risk is smaller with second doses based on current numbers at least. I think in general the expectation is also that those under 40 who have already been vaccinated are at an increased risk from covid (or they wouldn't have been vaccinated ahead of their age group) and so the risks vs benefits calculation is different.

chaosrabbitland · 07/05/2021 17:41

@Roonerspismed

If one more person talks about the risks from The contraceptive pill I will scream

I’m sure my risks of learning to parachute dive are also higher but that doesn’t mean I choose to do it

omg yes , and dont forget the other one about driving a car and having a crash that gets trotted out regularly !
EducatingArti · 07/05/2021 18:18

It isn't just about risk to an individual though. If insufficient people get vaccinated then there is an increased risk of Covid for everyone plus more risks of people being hospitalised and dying.