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Original poster

Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

981 replies

Whichjab · 06/05/2021 21:50

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 11:41

Under-40s to be offered alternative to AstraZeneca jab amid blood clot fears

f7td5.app.goo.gl/gNzdmp

Sent via @updayUK

OP posts:
Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 11:41

And all those under 40 that are awaiting their second jab?

OP posts:
nordica · 07/05/2021 11:42

2nd doses should still go ahead as planned if you had no adverse issues with the 1st dose.

Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 11:43

@nordica

2nd doses should still go ahead as planned if you had no adverse issues with the 1st dose.
How would you know, what is adverse, remember the majority of u40s won't have had their second jab yet.
OP posts:
Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 11:44

And all the people that have helpfully popped up on this thread to accuse many of the posters of scaremongering, or being anti vaccs...

OP posts:
chaosrabbitland · 07/05/2021 11:53

@IndigoC

The EMA stats show that it’s actually the 40-49 band at most risk of actually sustaining clots but supply issues mean we’re foisted with AZ and the government won’t admit that. Probably why it still refuses to give actual incidence rates per dose in each age group.

The Germans concluded in a study this week that age was minimally correlated, that it was being female that was the most significant risk factor (3.5x risk).

im 49 this year and this is why im holding off having it , i will have one the pffeizer or moderna , but im not risking the astra zeneca , it was only a couple of weeks ago i read in the papers about a 50 yr old male that collapsed in his kitchen after haveing it and wound up in intensive care with blood clots on his lungs , thankfully he recovered , its really not right that 40 plus are being as another poster has said being dispensible we really should be getting the incidence rates for this age group i agree and we should be able to choose a safer alternative
chaosrabbitland · 07/05/2021 11:57

@Carefulvulvadriver

So basically it now looks like the JCVI made this decision at their meeting LAST week, issued that vague update that wasnt really an update (just reasserting that under 30s should get an alternative) and then sat on the decision for a week while hundreds of thousands of 40-somethings blithely got themselves jabbed with AZ, and now they are turning round and admitting that actually there is a risk, which very clearly falls on 40-50 year olds too, but hey ho it's too late now as they've already had it and now need to wait for their second spin of the roulette wheel too.

The next month is going to be grim. Each week we are going to get fresh yellow card data showing us how many 40-50 year olds who got injected this week will end up experiencing one of these catastrophic clots. I in 5 will die who experience the clots edited by MNHQ at OP's request others may well be seriously affected for the rest of their lives. These are mothers and fathers of young children and teenagers. The devastating impact of each of those deaths and disablements will go far beyond their apparent (weekly) single digits.

But someone decided a week ago, if not before, that the cost was worth it. Anything is better, apparently, that delaying the full release of lock down measures a few weeks more while we waited for more supplies of alternative vaccines.

That's the choice that has been made for us - with very little transparency or public debate - and it's disgusting.

this , yes your right it is disgusting , im 48 and iv made my choice , if i cant have a different vaccine other than astra zeneca then im not having it at all
nordica · 07/05/2021 12:01

They are discussing it on the BBC News channel still.

The "preferentially offered an alternative" seems to mean the majority in the 30-39 group will get Pfizer or Moderna as supply is looking fine. In some circumstances where it isn't possible due to logistics/storage etc. then AZ still recommended if the choice is AZ or no jab.

They are trying to reassure the 40s age group by saying there haven't been any new news about the blood clot cases and it's still extremely rare... (Glossing over the fact the numbers have gone up - about 10 in a million for first doses and 1 in a million second doses.)

EducatingArti · 07/05/2021 12:05

It is still a tiny risk compared with the risks of blood clots from certain contraceptive pills.

IndigoC · 07/05/2021 12:07

@nordica

They are discussing it on the BBC News channel still.

The "preferentially offered an alternative" seems to mean the majority in the 30-39 group will get Pfizer or Moderna as supply is looking fine. In some circumstances where it isn't possible due to logistics/storage etc. then AZ still recommended if the choice is AZ or no jab.

They are trying to reassure the 40s age group by saying there haven't been any new news about the blood clot cases and it's still extremely rare... (Glossing over the fact the numbers have gone up - about 10 in a million for first doses and 1 in a million second doses.)

And yet the EMA has listed the highest incidence rate in the 40-49 bracket, and that detailed German study yesterday indicated it was not age but sex (females at 3.5x the risk) that was the key differentiator.
neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:07

While I agree with what has been said regarding the AZ vaccine, noone is saying anything about the safety of the Moderna and PFizer. I find that incredibly concerning.

neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:08

There are absolutely incidence of clots in both of these other vaccines. Not the same type but never the less the risk is there. Yet media silence.

neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:09

I am not anti-vax. I have had the AZ one 5 plus wks ago now.

neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:13

Its an old report but still. Very strange. Also listening to DR J Campbell on you tube said exactly the same a few weeks ago. The clots are in a different place but he worked out the rate was higher!
Who knows what to believe!
Tired of the AZ drip feed though.

Carefulvulvadriver · 07/05/2021 12:14

Dr June Raine from the MHRA answered the question about worried 40 somethings by saying they shouldnt worry because while the overall rate was 10.5 clots per 1m doses, for people age 40 and over, it was 10.1 clots per 1m doses.
But that isnt reassuring at all for people in their 40s. The rate of clots in people in their 60s and 70s is VERY low, which means the rate in people in their 40s and 50s will be MORE than 10.1 per million in order to get the over all rate for ALL over 40s down to 10.1.

Indeed, the data yday from the MHRA suggested the over 70s had a blood clot rate less than a third of those under 50 (when the data was crunched with the NHS England data on jabs given - which cant be perfect).

Also: Dr Raine's answer suggested the MHRA had rates by age, and yet they arent releasing them in full. It all stinks.

neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:16

Just to balance the argument:

IndigoC · 07/05/2021 12:17

@Carefulvulvadriver

Dr June Raine from the MHRA answered the question about worried 40 somethings by saying they shouldnt worry because while the overall rate was 10.5 clots per 1m doses, for people age 40 and over, it was 10.1 clots per 1m doses. But that isnt reassuring at all for people in their 40s. The rate of clots in people in their 60s and 70s is VERY low, which means the rate in people in their 40s and 50s will be MORE than 10.1 per million in order to get the over all rate for ALL over 40s down to 10.1.

Indeed, the data yday from the MHRA suggested the over 70s had a blood clot rate less than a third of those under 50 (when the data was crunched with the NHS England data on jabs given - which cant be perfect).

Also: Dr Raine's answer suggested the MHRA had rates by age, and yet they arent releasing them in full. It all stinks.

That’s such a disingenuous thing for her to say. They need to release the proper incidence rates by age and sex. It’s dreadful that they haven’t.
neveradullmoment99 · 07/05/2021 12:18

Well I am due to have my second AZ in June and being in my 50's now I have no choice and am not happy to mix vaccines because i feel that this is worse!

NotSoLongGoodbye · 07/05/2021 12:21

I so so so hope there is a retrospective review of all clotting cases over the last 6 months in older age groups to see if there is any correlation in timeline between clots and receiving AZ vaccine. I suspect any clots in the over 60s will not have been properly investigated.

A distant family member (early 60s) died of blood clots suddenly a few weeks prior to the news about AZ breaking and not a single question has been asked about whether she had been vaccinated beforehand. I appreciate it was unlikely to be AZ but I am dismayed that the question hasn't even been asked.

Schulte · 07/05/2021 12:37

They are just talking down the risks for people in their 40s because they don’t want to admit they have made a mistake in not restricting it sooner and for other age groups too. It’s now too late for most 40s and 50s but yes, it is truly disgusting. They are absolutely hiding facts so as not to hinder the vaccine rollout. I’ve been fairly tolerant of their shenanigans up till now but I do think it’s a scandal and maybe in a few years time there will be uncomfortable questions asked. Too late for those who died though.

Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 12:44

@EducatingArti

It is still a tiny risk compared with the risks of blood clots from certain contraceptive pills.
IT IS NOT THE SAME, IT IS NOT COMPARABLE. Convince yourself however you please but stop gas lighting people on this thread.
OP posts:
Original poster
Whichjab · 07/05/2021 12:45

Just to add, I still haven't seen any conclusive proof that AZ is actually that effective compared to Pfizer. where are the new studies now so many have been vaccinated.

OP posts:
Cheshiresun · 07/05/2021 12:57

Hmm, presumably more vaccines will have to be ordered then, as I've read Pfizer were being saved for second doses.

I had Moderna and I'm over 40, there were many people older than me there, they were still doing over 50's and over 45's groups also. Everyone was getting Moderna irrespective of age, but only 4m in total were ordered, I think. When I had mine (not knowing what one I'd be given) I was told AZ was being held for second doses so that's why everyone was getting Moderna.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream · 07/05/2021 12:57

@EducatingArti

It is still a tiny risk compared with the risks of blood clots from certain contraceptive pills.
If you read the old thread it is thoroughly explained that you cannot compare the risk of normal DVT from the pill to to the catastrophic clots linked to the AZ vaccine. Please don't insult our intelligence