Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

[Whichjab]

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

JCVI press conference at midday according to a journalist on Twitter.

@Nofriend

Surprise surprise can’t see anything on the BBC about this yet!

Question those who have had their first AZ would you be happy to have Pfizer as your second if offered? Or do you know anyone who has for eg people with clotting disorders etc I know there’s a study going on at the minute but hardly anyone had had a mixed dose regime so that’s also another thing to worry about.

I'm over 40 and had AZ nearly 3 weeks ago.

I wouldn't be happy to have a different vaccine for the second as the trials aren't completed and I would seriously think twice about getting the second. As far as I'm aware mixing vaccines is still undergoing trials so I would rather take the small risk of AZ than an unknown risk of mixing.

I will have my second vaccine as soon as I'm offered it. DH is 20 years older than me and most of my close family are elderly. They are all vaccinated but I don't want to take any chances.

Anyone who had AZ already will still have it for their 2nd dose, that's what's been happening with the under 30s too. It sounds like AZ will still be available for anyone who wants it as their 1st dose as well, it's more about increasing choice - I think they've realised the blood clot issue was starting to cause vaccine hesitancy (it was - even in people like me who are really pro-vax!).

Will be interesting to see what graphs they show this time.

And how they have manicured the numbers for the 40-59 age groups.

I see it’s been reported for reasons of “vaccine hesitancy” in this age group (rage than the truth which is the vaccine risk is higher than covid).

There is also a sixth table on the MHRA website with further figures not broken down by age for low platelets plus stroke.

So basically it now looks like the JCVI made this decision at their meeting LAST week, issued that vague update that wasnt really an update (just reasserting that under 30s should get an alternative) and then sat on the decision for a week while hundreds of thousands of 40-somethings blithely got themselves jabbed with AZ, and now they are turning round and admitting that actually there is a risk, which very clearly falls on 40-50 year olds too, but hey ho it's too late now as they've already had it and now need to wait for their second spin of the roulette wheel too.

The next month is going to be grim. Each week we are going to get fresh yellow card data showing us how many 40-50 year olds who got injected this week will end up experiencing one of these catastrophic clots. I in 5 will die who experience the clots edited by MNHQ at OP's request others may well be seriously affected for the rest of their lives. These are mothers and fathers of young children and teenagers. The devastating impact of each of those deaths and disablements will go far beyond their apparent (weekly) single digits.

But someone decided a week ago, if not before, that the cost was worth it. Anything is better, apparently, that delaying the full release of lock down measures a few weeks more while we waited for more supplies of alternative vaccines.

That's the choice that has been made for us - with very little transparency or public debate - and it's disgusting.

Where have you got the figure of 1 in 5 will die @Carefulvulvadriver?

@PinkSparklyPussyCat that's 1 in 5 who get the clots. Sorry I assumed that was clear, but can see may be not.
1 in 5 people who get these very strange and unusual clots die. Not 1 in 5 people who have the AZ vax.

The figure has been consistently reported in the yellow card data over the last few weeks (started a bit higher, but seems to have stablised at around 20%)

I'll report my post and ask MN if I can edit it to make that clear.
I'm pro vax. I dont want to put people off having a vaccine, but I'm also pro people having the right vax for them, and I dont think the risk of the AZ vax is currently justified for most people under the age of 50.

Will those of us in our early 40s still waiting on our first appointment be forced to take AZ now? I feel like all Moderna and Pfizer doses will be hoarded until they open up under 40s.

I think, though, this is key from the Guardian and Independent articles.

"Choices will only be offered where supplies of alternatives are available, however"

So if there is nothing but AZ supply locally, there won't just be masses of spare Pfizer available.
I also suspect you won't know that when you book so could go along to an appointment with no choice available but AZ.

I'm absolutely pro vax, I've done nothing but harp on about how vaccines are safe and effective (and have received the first myself), but given recent updates I'm not feeling too pleased about the thought of the second

I should add, I'm very happy to have the AZ or any vaccine. Just noticed this and thought worth pointing out

Exactly vulva. They knew this data last week and sat on it - to use up AZ.

And they are still being disingenuous because they they say this latest change is due to vaccine hesitancy.

There will be no photos of these people in the daily mail.

Thanks @Carefulvulvadriver, it was probably me not reading properly! I'm happy to have had AZ but I saw 1 in 5 and that was it, panic!

For me the risk of AZ is worth it as I didn't have another option and I wanted to be vaccinated ASAP but I appreciate a lot of other people don't feel like that.

@Roonerspismed

I see it’s been reported for reasons of “vaccine hesitancy” in this age group (rage than the truth which is the vaccine risk is higher than covid).

There is also a sixth table on the MHRA website with further figures not broken down by age for low platelets plus stroke.

Yes I saw that too - saying it’s to combat vaccine hesitancy so they don’t have to admit that the risk vs benefit comparison doesn’t stack up. Made me cross too.

really? They are claiming it's hesitancy? Well for all the over 40 year olds on here that are worried about it, there is your strategy then. Express a hesitance and that will open the door...

Seriously what utter bollocks. Most under 40s havent been offered it yet, so they havent even had a chance to hesitate. Anything but admit what the data from across the UK, EU and elsewhere shows.

@Chocolategirl19791

I'm 41 and due mine on Monday which I'm sure will be AZ as in Scotland and our health bird didn't get any Moderna yet. I've had a hunch about AZ being an issue ever since the first chat of clots came out in Europe. My husband is just annoyed by my comments on this. He's 39 so may avoid AZ even though he doesn't care. I feel if it's a risk for him at 2 years younger and male then it's a bigger risk for me.

I just feel there is more to come on this. The rate is going up each week and if it's more common in the younger age group it will only go up as more get it and the lag with time from dose to clot, etc. For the first time they've talked on the gender bias which other countries mentioned months ago.

I was actually disappointed to get an appointment as I'd like to see another month of data before having it.

I know someone in Scotland that got the Moderna a few weeks back. This was central scotland [ Think the SCC in Glasgow]

How can they claim hesitancy when that age group hasn’t even opened up? Perhaps they are extrapolating from the 40+ group.

The reality is surely that when cases are low and you know you have enough supply in the pipeline to vaccinate remaining groups without AZ it’s a no brainer to save a couple of hundred people from an unnecessary cerebral blood clot.

@joyam

I think, though, this is key from the Guardian and Independent articles.

"Choices will only be offered where supplies of alternatives are available, however"

So if there is nothing but AZ supply locally, there won't just be masses of spare Pfizer available.
I also suspect you won't know that when you book so could go along to an appointment with no choice available but AZ.

Yes, but with the new advice I feel those of us who want an alternative will at least have a strong case to get it. They won't be able to say take AZ or you get nothing. I was worried they would deserve all the Pfizer/Moderna stock for the under 30s even at centres that offer it, but that won't now happen.

Obviously many vaccination centres, pharmacies, GP surgeries etc. don't have the facilities to offer Pfizer/Moderna because the cold storage needed is different. So if you book your jab at the local Boots, they can't magic up Pfizer for you...

I'm not sure how the booking system is working currently for the under 30s who are eligible due to their jobs or health status but I imagine the national booking system will have to be changed to show which venues offer which jab? This has been an issue for pregnant women recently too as they too should get an alternative to AZ.

The reality is surely that when cases are low and you know you have enough supply in the pipeline to vaccinate remaining groups without AZ it’s a no brainer to save a couple of hundred people from an unnecessary cerebral blood clot.

Exactly, especially since it is looking increasingly likely that AZ will be phased out and all the Autumn "boosters" will be something else.

I feel like I was rushed through last week to increase numbers / uptake and use AZ before any changes were made.
I'm 36 no health concerns at all, I got an automatic text from my GP asking me to accept / decline my vaccine on 27th April, I accepted and was given an appointment in May, on 29th April I was called to ask if I wanted to take up a vaccine that day, I jumped at the chance as lockdown has been pretty fucking dogshit as a FTM to a now 20m toddler. I got there and the GP surgery was empty, no one else there. From the phone call to being back at my desk in my makeshift home office was 22 minutes.
My DH, same surname, same GP, he's a couple years older, got his automatic text on Wednesday this week, he replied on Thursday and he was called straight away, saying that between them offering and DH accepting the guidance had now changed and they were no longer offering AZ to those in their 30s. No reason given but "perhaps a supply chain problem".

I've now got a splitting headache which I don't know is down to the stress of blood clots or an actual blood clot.

News conference from JCVI now on BBC News channel.

Press conference live:

MHRA position unchanged- benefits of AZ outweigh risks for the vast majority of people.

JCVI has changed their recommendations on the use of AZ due to recent data.

The strength of the vaccine programme so far means it will protect us going forward and any predicted new wave of covid now expected to be smaller.

In light of this healthy 30-39s should preferentially be offered an alternative vaccine.

In certain settings AZ is the best vaccine to offer due to storage and transport requirements of the other vaccines.

Generally good availability of alternative vaccines.