Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

[Whichjab]

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

@Blondiney - there is a choice, though: AZ now, or wait for an uncertain amount of time until there’s enough alternative vaccines to offer to you and not just younger people. It’s just you don’t like that choice and want the facts to be different, enabling you to ensure you get Pfizer or Moderna now. Excluding specific allergies, why would anyone choose AZ in favour of Pfizer or Moderna right now if there were genuinely enough of the other two for everyone to be free to choose on the day of their vaccine? It’s a question of balancing risks of delaying vaccination against risks of getting a vaccine with extremely rare serious side effects and more doubt over its efficacy against the South African variant (less concerns about others). After all, AZ is not risk free for any age group, so why would anyone take a risk they could avoid if the benefits of less risky vaccines were equal or greater? Up to you to decide whether delaying vaccination is better than getting vaccinated with what is available to you now, bearing in mind people will shortly be hugging each other and travelling about more.

[quote Walkaround]@Blondiney - there is a choice, though: AZ now, or wait for an uncertain amount of time until there’s enough alternative vaccines to offer to you and not just younger people. It’s just you don’t like that choice and want the facts to be different, enabling you to ensure you get Pfizer or Moderna now. Excluding specific allergies, why would anyone choose AZ in favour of Pfizer or Moderna right now if there were genuinely enough of the other two for everyone to be free to choose on the day of their vaccine? It’s a question of balancing risks of delaying vaccination against risks of getting a vaccine with extremely rare serious side effects and more doubt over its efficacy against the South African variant (less concerns about others). After all, AZ is not risk free for any age group, so why would anyone take a risk they could avoid if the benefits of less risky vaccines were equal or greater? Up to you to decide whether delaying vaccination is better than getting vaccinated with what is available to you now, bearing in mind people will shortly be hugging each other and travelling about more.[/quote]
Thanks for that incredibly insightful post, Captain Obvious.

It's pretty clear what people here mean when they talk about choice - AZ or a safer alternative. Not AZ or nothing.

It’s pretty clear that 100% of people would like to have the safest choice.

@Tealightsandd

I don’t know if this article answers your question.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-04-19/the-shock-and-reality-of-catching-covid-after-a-vaccine%3fcontext=amp

Here’s an extract

In data released Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that at least 5,800 people had fallen ill or tested positive for the coronavirus two weeks or more after they completed both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine.

A total of about 84 million Americans are now fully vaccinated.

These so-called breakthrough infections occurred among people of all ages. Just over 40% were in people age 60 or older, and 65% occurred in women. Twenty-nine percent of infected people reported no symptoms, but 7% were hospitalized and just over 1%, 74 people, died, according to the CDC.

I've followed this thread for the last week. I turned down AZ at the vaccination centre on Monday and re booked for tomorrow - I know it'll be AZ because of the set up here. Wavering whether to defer a few more weeks but I k is even then it'll be AZ unless the guidance changes nationally which I don't see happening especially given most 40+ are vaccinated.

Such a decision as I feel delaying just ours off the inevitable. Our clinics are 2 super centres for the entire health board only which have both vaccines so you can't try and pick a location with an AZ alternative.

Poor you, that is difficult. Are there any waiting lists for people to use up leftover Pfizer jabs? I was on a waiting list with my local GP practice and was offered a spare after about 3 weeks but by then I’d already had my jab elsewhere.

@Chocolategirl19791

I've followed this thread for the last week. I turned down AZ at the vaccination centre on Monday and re booked for tomorrow - I know it'll be AZ because of the set up here. Wavering whether to defer a few more weeks but I k is even then it'll be AZ unless the guidance changes nationally which I don't see happening especially given most 40+ are vaccinated.

Such a decision as I feel delaying just ours off the inevitable. Our clinics are 2 super centres for the entire health board only which have both vaccines so you can't try and pick a location with an AZ alternative.

I'm so sick of analysing it, I might just go for the AZ on Saturday and get it over with it.

@Schulte no waiting lists here it's just the 2 centres which cover the whole area and you can only go to them as you stay within health board. GPs did over 80s only. Both centres work the same and have both vaccines so it's literally take it or leave it.

@FergoMcFergFace this so why I booked tomorrow. I had booked for 3 weeks time but feel like I'll be going round in circles for weeks. My husband is about to kill me over it. He's 39 and got Pfizer but would have happily swapped and taken AZ!

@Chocolategirl19791

I've followed this thread for the last week. I turned down AZ at the vaccination centre on Monday and re booked for tomorrow - I know it'll be AZ because of the set up here. Wavering whether to defer a few more weeks but I k is even then it'll be AZ unless the guidance changes nationally which I don't see happening especially given most 40+ are vaccinated.

Such a decision as I feel delaying just ours off the inevitable. Our clinics are 2 super centres for the entire health board only which have both vaccines so you can't try and pick a location with an AZ alternative.

That's how it works where I live too and probably most places. Each vaccinator will only have a particular vaccine and the bay you are sent to will depend mainly on your age or (if it's a second dose ) what you have the first time .Those who think you can have a debate with the person doing the vaccinations have probably never been to a centre. Regardless, I think the risk of an adverse event is extremely low and while the risk of severe or long Covid may be low at the moment, it will not stay that way now that everything is opening up.

@Schulte

Poor you, that is difficult. Are there any waiting lists for people to use up leftover Pfizer jabs? I was on a waiting list with my local GP practice and was offered a spare after about 3 weeks but by then I’d already had my jab elsewhere.

At my local centre, if they have spare Pfizer they phone people under 40.

A little bit of perspective (I guess) from someone who is concerned about the risks from second dose:

My son came down with a fever and a cough in the night. While obviously I really hope it’s not Covid, I do feel very grateful that my husband and I have both had one dose of AZ so if it does turn out to be that, I don’t have to overly worry we’ll all come down with it.

@MiniMaxi that does concern me. We have 2 small kids/germ factories and already had had to isolate for contacts and it could easily happen again and we've had a few tests which thankfully turned out negative. I want to go out in a couple of weeks to a restaurant and feel safe too.

[quote Chocolategirl19791]@Schulte no waiting lists here it's just the 2 centres which cover the whole area and you can only go to them as you stay within health board. GPs did over 80s only. Both centres work the same and have both vaccines so it's literally take it or leave it.

@FergoMcFergFace this so why I booked tomorrow. I had booked for 3 weeks time but feel like I'll be going round in circles for weeks. My husband is about to kill me over it. He's 39 and got Pfizer but would have happily swapped and taken AZ![/quote]
If they have both, why can't you ask for Pfizer? Or have you asked and they have said they won't give you it? That's pretty crap of them, if so. I turned down AZ - went to the place before my scheduled appt to find out what they were giving out. Spoke to a nurse or HCP who told me when they were going to be giving out Pfizer and she said she'd put a note on my file saying I don't consent to AZ. I'm 40.

I'm so sick of the constant low level anxiety and it being the first thing I think of when I wake up. I've already booked and cancelled twice, all the while the threat of everything opening up looms.

I've just booked at my GP for the third time. Had the option for a Friday (this Friday!!!) appointment for the first time, usually the just offer weekends. I'm kidding myself it's a Pfizer day.

@LondonWFuck I went on Monday and they said it's AZ or you can leave so it did (they were horrible about it but that's another story). There really is no flexibility here and the set up with 2 centres mean you can't go elsewhere to try and get somewhere where it's not AZ. Our health board doesn't have any Moderna so the choices are even more limited. I don't see a way of avoiding unless I delay for months or they change the guidance and I don't see that happening either.

[quote Chocolategirl19791]@LondonWFuck I went on Monday and they said it's AZ or you can leave so it did (they were horrible about it but that's another story). There really is no flexibility here and the set up with 2 centres mean you can't go elsewhere to try and get somewhere where it's not AZ. Our health board doesn't have any Moderna so the choices are even more limited. I don't see a way of avoiding unless I delay for months or they change the guidance and I don't see that happening either.[/quote]
That's really crap, I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

Tbh I can't see them changing the guidance now either. All hell would break loose if they suddenly deemed the over 40s of being worthy of a choice, given that most of them have had their first jab.

You could see if there's any walk-in sessions near you in the near future?

I hope you get a resolution soon

@Chocolategirl19791

Can you try booking one of the mass vaccination centres through the website? There's no guarantee you wouldn't be offered AZ, but there's a lot of information on this board from people who have been given Pfizer or Moderna at certain centres.

@Cherrycee I'm in Scotland so it's a bit different. We only have 2 centres that cover the whole health board and the work the same ( k ow people that have been to both). We don't have pharmacists, GPs or multiple centres doing them up here so our choice is so limited.

Both centres have both but your split off based on age and it's AZ for anyone over 40. No way of avoiding it they're doing first and second doses at the same time so will have both for the foreseeable future.

@Chocolategirl19791
Sorry it's so difficult for you in your area. I'm in Scotland too and had decided not to get the AZ despite being nearly 50. I rang the helpline and spoke to an extremely helpful person who said I should just turn up for my jab and see what was on offer as it really depended on supply and they couldn't tell me what would be where. I got lucky and got Pfizer but up until the day before my appointment the centre had been exclusively AZ. None of the staff had been expecting to change to Pfizer. The staff at the vaccination centre were extremely dismissive of my concerns re AZ ...

My other bit of advice is to book a late afternoon / later in the day appointment as you may find they are willing to give you an alternative vaccine at that point if not everyone has turned up and they have spares.

Interesting to read results of the vaccine mixing study Com-Cov 1, are due out soon. And Com-Cov 2 (the expanded trial including Moderna and Novavax) is due in June/July. The intent is to enable flexibility in rollout, I fear this could turn into switching up second doses of Moderna and Pfizer for over-40s to AZ.

The studies are underpowered to detect side effects IMO (just 800 and 1000 participants). It is also Oxford-led...

Do you have a link? I did a quick Google but couldn’t find anything on when the results are expected. Study 2 only has people over 50 in it I believe?

@Schulte

Do you have a link? I did a quick Google but couldn’t find anything on when the results are expected. Study 2 only has people over 50 in it I believe?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56730526

www.comcovstudy.org.uk/

And a Canadian report claims: Some early results may be available soon; the study team told CBC News it's "anticipating sharing data in the next week or so."

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccines-mix-and-match-1.6020986

@Blondiney

I'm so sick of the constant low level anxiety and it being the first thing I think of when I wake up. I've already booked and cancelled twice, all the while the threat of everything opening up looms.

I've just booked at my GP for the third time. Had the option for a Friday (this Friday!!!) appointment for the first time, usually the just offer weekends. I'm kidding myself it's a Pfizer day.

This is exactly me. I go to bed worrying about it, and I wake up worrying about it. It's so bad for my MH.

Indigo the BBC report says 2nd doses will be same again or a shot of Moderna and Novavax. Doesn't look like there will be any Pfizer to AZ mixing. In any case since most 1st dose Pfizer were done earlier there wouldn't be many left to switch to AZ 2nd dose by the time the study reports.

Looks more like another sign of a pivot away from AZ going forward.