Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

[Whichjab]

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

[quote Cherrycee]**@LondonWFuck

You might be able to rebook appointments, but you could keep getting offered AZ and you won't know until you turn up. There's no way right now to ensure you get Pfizer or Moderna because you're not being offered a choice. That's why I'm saying the German system works better, people are able to make an informed choice without taking the risk that they won't be offered a vaccine for months on end.[/quote]
Yeah, I could keep being offered AZ. I have heard of places which offer alternatives but yes I agree that it may not work out the way I would like it to.

@LondonWFuck

I did read on one of the other threads that there's a method to it. You'll be asked to book your second dose at the same time as booking your first, and if you see a long list of options it's probably AZ. If you see a short list it's more likely to be Pfizer or Moderna. Seems to have worked for a few people.

@Cherrycee, interesting theory, thank you! I have also seen some posts on here indicating places not too far from me (I'm in London) which are currently offering alternatives. Let's see, maybe my place will be offering something else tomorrow altho what I have seen online suggests it's always AZ. Thank you for the tip!

When you say "long list of options" does that mean date options or place options, do you know?

When you say "long list of options" does that mean date options or place options, do you know?

I'm not totally sure as I haven't done it myself, but I think it was place. I'll see if I can find the thread it was in.

I am very upset that the MHRA is being so opaque with the data. Why are they not giving the rate of incidence of rare blood clots for each age group and each gender by age group? It does me no good to know that the incidence is 10.5/million for ages 18-93. What's the incidence for my age group 40-49? How can I make an informed decision if data is being hidden from me. Luckily the EMA are giving out this data from Europe but I just feel so let down by our regulating body. When June Raine answered the question about the anxious 40 year old yesterday at the press conference by saying the risk is 10.1/million for those over 40 the dishonesty of her answer made my jaw drop. She's twisting facts by lumping 40-90 year olds together to falsely reassure.

@LondonWFuck

It's in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4234622-Moderna-vaccine-in-the-North

See bookworm's post near the end of the first page. Hope you get sorted.

[quote Cherrycee]**@LondonWFuck

You might be able to rebook appointments, but you could keep getting offered AZ and you won't know until you turn up. There's no way right now to ensure you get Pfizer or Moderna because you're not being offered a choice. That's why I'm saying the German system works better, people are able to make an informed choice without taking the risk that they won't be offered a vaccine for months on end.[/quote]
Choice can only be offered if there is enough vaccine to offer the choice. At the moment, many centres in the UK only have AstraZeneca. If the system works so much better in Germany how come they have a lower vaccination rate than us and more cases at the moment .From what I've read, people are generally being offered the choice of AstraZeneca or waiting for an alternative which isn't really much different to here.

[quote Cherrycee]**@LondonWFuck

It's in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4234622-Moderna-vaccine-in-the-North

See bookworm's post near the end of the first page. Hope you get sorted.[/quote]
Thank you so much!! This is so helpful, thanks for taking the time to find it 💞

@pingalinga

I am very upset that the MHRA is being so opaque with the data. Why are they not giving the rate of incidence of rare blood clots for each age group and each gender by age group? It does me no good to know that the incidence is 10.5/million for ages 18-93. What's the incidence for my age group 40-49? How can I make an informed decision if data is being hidden from me. Luckily the EMA are giving out this data from Europe but I just feel so let down by our regulating body. When June Raine answered the question about the anxious 40 year old yesterday at the press conference by saying the risk is 10.1/million for those over 40 the dishonesty of her answer made my jaw drop. She's twisting facts by lumping 40-90 year olds together to falsely reassure.

They have said that there have been 10.1 cases per million doses in 40- to 49-year-olds compared with 17.4 cases per million doses, or one in 60,000, among those aged 30 to 39.

No problem @LondonWFuck, I hope it works for you!

@Belladonna12
I'm not sure where those numbers are coming from I've seen them from a few newspapers but they're not properly sourced. The MHRA hasn't given out that info.

How am I turning it into a black and white issue? I’ve said many times that it is indeed a fine balance, only I sit on the other side of the fence from you.

If you told some people on this thread the sky was blue they'd tell you it was green just to be fucking opposite. They just want to shut down all debate unless you agree with their point of view.

@AppleJane - point to where I am trying to shut down debate? Or do you just want an echo chamber?

How about by accusing me of being black and white

Re the booking and the website showing fewer options for the 2nd jab if the 1st slot you were booking was Moderna... that wasn’t my experience. My first jab was indeed Moderna but I was offered a full list of options for my second jab, including a very local site that I’m sure only does AZ. I hope it works out for you though @LondonWFuck, fingers crossed!

This thread occasionally strays into angry comments about perceived cover ups and the ruthless sacrificing of innocent people. I will argue against that as I don’t think it’s helpful to be injecting so much anger and paranoia into the debate, but I am very much up for the discussion of opposing risks and benefits at a personal and societal level, how we individually perceive the risks versus benefits, how we cope with uncertainty about the precise extent of an extremely rare risk (there is no evidence it is or will ever be anything other than extremely rare), how we deal with the uncertainty over what will happen next in the ongoing pandemic if we do or don’t press on with vaccinations, how we deal with the anxiety around it all, etc.

@Schulte - your list of ethical questions was incredibly one sided and appeared to be drawing conclusions for which you do not have sufficient evidence, so pardon me for finding that a rather one sided analysis, rather than having shades of grey in it!

I was just trying to explain why this issue interests me so much...

I actually wasn't referring to you @Walkaround but there are some that as soon as you try to discuss personal risk will just shut you down with 'you don't have to have the vaccine' which totally misses the point and I think they're doing it on purpose now.

Not sure 1 in 50,000 is still ‘extremely rare’. Rare yes, but ‘extremely rare’ would be one in a million. Just my personal view.

I also believe we might only be seeing the tip of an iceberg. A friend knows a GP who has seen 7 cases of clotting out of 7000 vaccinated people in her practice. Coincidence perhaps, but concerning nevertheless.

@Schulte

How about by accusing me of being black and white

Re the booking and the website showing fewer options for the 2nd jab if the 1st slot you were booking was Moderna... that wasn’t my experience. My first jab was indeed Moderna but I was offered a full list of options for my second jab, including a very local site that I’m sure only does AZ. I hope it works out for you though @LondonWFuck, fingers crossed!

Oh ok, interesting! I'll just see what happens, the whole thing is stressing me out tbh 🙈 if I do get offered AZ and don't go ahead I will hate myself a bit. I was really looking forward to getting it done as well. Argh.

I totally sympathise, it’s a difficult situation to be in! Good luck.

@Schulte - less than 1 in 10,000 is considered very rare when it comes to vaccination risks, so I would say 1 in 50,000 is extremely rate and 1 in 1,000,000 exceptionally rare! It’s all in the eye of the beholder though, I guess.

@Schulte

Not sure 1 in 50,000 is still ‘extremely rare’. Rare yes, but ‘extremely rare’ would be one in a million. Just my personal view.

I also believe we might only be seeing the tip of an iceberg. A friend knows a GP who has seen 7 cases of clotting out of 7000 vaccinated people in her practice. Coincidence perhaps, but concerning nevertheless.

As drug side effects go 1 in 50,000 to 100,000 would be considered "extremely rare". Your risk of ending up in ICU with Covid will be a lot higher than that if cases increase. I don't believe that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg as millions of people have had the vaccine so far with very few cases comparatively.

@pingalinga

I am very upset that the MHRA is being so opaque with the data. Why are they not giving the rate of incidence of rare blood clots for each age group and each gender by age group? It does me no good to know that the incidence is 10.5/million for ages 18-93. What's the incidence for my age group 40-49? How can I make an informed decision if data is being hidden from me. Luckily the EMA are giving out this data from Europe but I just feel so let down by our regulating body. When June Raine answered the question about the anxious 40 year old yesterday at the press conference by saying the risk is 10.1/million for those over 40 the dishonesty of her answer made my jaw drop. She's twisting facts by lumping 40-90 year olds together to falsely reassure.

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for *@pingalinga?*