Is this really the end

[Beatinghearts]

It look like. It’s finally the end of this and everyone will be getting back to normal.

Again, @IcedPurple if you want to discuss my positions with me it's probably best to quote me.

Otherwise you're having an imaginary discussion with yourself really aren't you, if you make up both sides.

When did you think border measures would cease to be needed if you don't think the world will be vaccinated?

When this country is vaccinated.

Do you think we should impose strict border restrictions against the rest of the world because of measles, polio, diphtheria, rubella, etc? Or are you okay with the risk there?

Japan (the East) population of approx 126 million.
Covid deaths: just over 10,000.

UK (the West) population of approx 68 million.
Covid deaths: 150,000.

London alone has suffered more deaths than the whole of Japan.

It's not the West who managed this well.

@GoldenOmber

When did you think border measures would cease to be needed if you don't think the world will be vaccinated?

When this country is vaccinated.

Do you think we should impose strict border restrictions against the rest of the world because of measles, polio, diphtheria, rubella, etc? Or are you okay with the risk there?

When will this country be vaccinated?

Do you not understand what temporary means?

Christ.

Once again: my concern is that giving a xenophobic, authoritarian government the power to close borders and keep them closed as long as they feel is a threat is not a great idea.

@tobee

I've just seen that Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has announced that foreign travel will resume from 17 May under a traffic light system, with Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, Gibraltar and Israel among 12 countries and territories on the green list so I guess Australia still has airports.

I never knew viruses had nationalities. Fascinating.

When will this country be vaccinated?

Well, current plans are that all adults will have been offered at least one dose by the end of July. Maybe that’ll be enough to keep rates very low by itself, or maybe we’ll have to wait another month or two to see if a second dose is needed. Worst case is that we’ll need the autumn booster programme, in which case late autumn.

What makes you think (different to the experts) that partial vaccination is sufficient? Fully vaccinated, like Israel, well that's a different matter.

[quote CarrieAntoinette]@tobee

I've just seen that Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has announced that foreign travel will resume from 17 May under a traffic light system, with Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, Gibraltar and Israel among 12 countries and territories on the green list so I guess Australia still has airports. [/quote]
Yeah what a strange thing you said about airports! Was that meant to humorous? I'm sure no one in Australia ever flies internally either. It's a tiny country after all.

Can I travel to Australian, does it mean I can only fly via Singapore.

@Tealightsandd

What makes you think (different to the experts) that partial vaccination is sufficient? Fully vaccinated, like Israel, well that's a different matter.

‘The experts’ have been pretty clear that one dose does have a significant effect on lowering infections and hospitalisations. Whether that’ll be enough or whether we’ll have to wait for more people to get a second dose is something we’ll have to wait and see I suppose.

@GoldenOmber

When will this country be vaccinated?

Well, current plans are that all adults will have been offered at least one dose by the end of July. Maybe that’ll be enough to keep rates very low by itself, or maybe we’ll have to wait another month or two to see if a second dose is needed. Worst case is that we’ll need the autumn booster programme, in which case late autumn.

There. You've said it yourself. A road map for if we had border restrictions. Provisional start opening up - autumn (depending on data and science, of course). Obviously it would be more sensible to get the majority of the population fully vaccinated but either way, that's another few months and definitely not 'years and years'.

Interesting for your obsession with 'xenophobia' against a virus... It's the right wing governments that have remained wide open (with high death rates as a consequence).

@Tealightsandd

Japan (the East) population of approx 126 million. Covid deaths: just over 10,000.

UK (the West) population of approx 68 million.
Covid deaths: 150,000.

London alone has suffered more deaths than the whole of Japan.

It's not the West who managed this well.

You might need to differentiate between what's happened in the last year. And slat will happen in the future. The appalling death toll in the USA and U.K. will largely fade from memory. The vaccine rollout in the U.K. and the USA is doing much better than large populations of the east. Why do you think Johnson has managed to target and do well on vaccine procurement and roll out? See how the latest elections are doing for him. If the general population were bothered by the appalling death toll how would the Tories be doing? People see hope with the vaccine rollout. The case numbers

The experts have only noted that first dose vaccinations seem effective....for a temporary period. Longer term protection requires full vaccination. Still nevermind, our let's gamble and wait and see and regret failing to take action with hindsight has served us so well so far...

There. You've said it yourself. A road map for if we had border restrictions.

I didn’t say ‘if we had border restrictions’ at all.

Interesting for your obsession with 'xenophobia' against a virus

For the fourth time now: my comcern with ‘border restrictions’ is that they give our xenophobic, right-wing government the power to keep borders closed as long as they like, so long as they can say “ah, but [Country X] still has Covid.”

It’s lovely you think that wannabe-authoritarian governments will never take emergency measures and use them for purposes other than the ones they were intended for. But I fear not very realistic.

Yes let's gamble with non Covid health, mental health and bust the economy by never opening up at all.

Longer term protection requires full vaccination.

Yes, which is why we are also giving second doses. 🤷‍♀️

@DogsSausages

Can I travel to Australian, does it mean I can only fly via Singapore.

There are only limited flights. You might be able to go via UAE but you'd need to check.

@GoldenOmber

Longer term protection requires full vaccination.

Yes, which is why we are also giving second doses. 🤷‍♀️

There's a lot of desperation going on from our stalwarts of doom

@GoldenOmber

Longer term protection requires full vaccination.

Yes, which is why we are also giving second doses. 🤷‍♀️

And thirds...

Yes third doses. For the vulnerable

And annual boosters. Maybe. Just like for the flu season.

Unprecedented!

@tobee

Yes let's gamble with non Covid health, mental health and bust the economy by never opening up at all.

We've tried that way. It hasn't worked out do well...

I'd have much preferred the Australian, New Zealand, East Asia approach... opened up (but temporary restricted international borders).

Unfortunately the UK government chose international travel over lives, health, and the economy. Hence our very high death rate AND repeated long lockdowns.

There's a lot of desperation going on from our stalwarts of doom

There is indeed. Oh for the sunny Oz and Kiwi positivity of being opened up (but with temporary border restrictions). Getting their populations fully vaccinated - and then to open borders...by which time the new drug treatments will also be ready.

Yet here we are in gloomy negative we can't, we can't, we can't UK, going round in circles, repeating the mistakes again and again, deja vu.

@tobee

Yes third doses. For the vulnerable

And annual boosters. Maybe. Just like for the flu season.

Unprecedented!

Some vaccines take at least 5 goes to fully work, they must be really shit!