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Is this really the end

320 replies

Beatinghearts · 06/05/2021 13:48

It look like. It’s finally the end of this and everyone will be getting back to normal.

OP posts:
tobee · 07/05/2021 17:03

You were not implying by saying "one day. Not this year. Or the next" means that vaccines currently used and in development work? For current and future variants?

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:03

@tobee

So my friend's husband is just dreaming he can't go to Australia? They've only just opened up/are about to open up a corridor with NZ.
It's my understanding that you can apply for permission in cases such as his.

I know you can in New Zealand.

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:03

We can be whoever we want to be. We are a sovereign country.

We chose international travel over lives, health, and livelihood. We didn't have to.

If we wanted border control and real quarantine, we could have it. Instead we choose to say..."oh no we can't possibly do that...we can't we can't we can't...."... Nope. Actually, if we want, we can. We just didn't want. I don't include myself in the 'we'.

We chose it. We chose, instead of border control, 150,000 dead, more with heart, lung, and other long Covid damage, ruined businesses, NHS backlog of up to 5 years AND long repeated lockdowns. The government prioritised international travel above all else.

tobee · 07/05/2021 17:04

Huh? Sorry could you explain your previous question?

tobee · 07/05/2021 17:04

That was to @CarrieAntoinette

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:05

@tobee

You were not implying by saying "one day. Not this year. Or the next" means that vaccines currently used and in development work? For current and future variants?
Could you rephrase that? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:06

@tobee

Huh? Sorry could you explain your previous question?
Which one?
IcedPurple · 07/05/2021 17:06

@CarrieAntoinette

So, *@IcedPurple*

Who says the British government has allowed Covid to become endemic in the U.K.?

Because that would rather support my argument that rather than beat covid or "Get Covid Done" they are going to let it linger for generations and so therefore, this is not - as per the thread title - The End.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

When people are talking about the 'end' they don't mean that Covid is going to be eradicated. Nobody with any clue thinks that is a possibility. Covid is going to be around indefinitely, along with hundreds of other illnesses that we manage to live alongside. Thankfully it's not an especially virulent illnesses, we have effective vaccines and will soon likely have effective cures, so it shouldn't pose a major challenge in the long or even medium term.

What people are talking about is the 'end' of current lockdown measures. And yes, that is in sight. Your extreme political biases dont' change that.

tobee · 07/05/2021 17:07

Ok. In reply to GoldenOmber you said

One day.

Not this year.

Or next.

Were you referring to the vaccines?

tobee · 07/05/2021 17:08

"Is there any evidence for that position? Is the global pandemic slowing down, or are the new variants becoming less dangerous than the older models?"

This is the question I was saying "huh?" to

GoldenOmber · 07/05/2021 17:08

If we wanted border control and real quarantine, we could have it. Instead we choose to say..."oh no we can't possibly do that...we can't we can't we can't...."... Nope. Actually, if we want, we can. We just didn't want. I don't include myself in the 'we'.

No, and when it comes to closing borders in a draconian and indefinite fashion, neither does Priti Patel. Good luck getting the power off her and her authoritarian buddies to effectively outlaw immigration from The Bad Countries now!

I do agree our government cocked up in many various and awful ways. I don’t see how it therefore follows that everything must be cocked up indefinitely, as you seem to. We were in a terrible position earlier; we are in a fairly good position now. Why deny that?

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:09

So when you said covid was now endemic @IcedPurple, you didn't have any basis on which to say that?

GoldenOmber · 07/05/2021 17:13

There’s a big gap between ‘is endemic’ and ‘has been allowed by a government to become endemic’. It is odd to say that about Covid in the UK, and downright strange to say it about polio in Afghanistan.

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:13

@tobee

Yes Australia and New Zealand are doing just fine. Except no one can go there. Even citizens. I was just speaking to my friend this afternoon who's husband's mother is seriously ill in Sydney with advanced dementia. And there's no chance of him visiting her for good knows how long.
It's unfortunate for the minority who want to travel but the Australian government has to protect the majority of its residents - including the vulnerable indigenous populations.

There are always people who can't travel pandemic or not. It's very sad but it can't mean taking drastic action that has devastating impact on the majority.

A family friend is in her 80s. Australian. Her sister in her 70s lives over here. They can't visit ever again because ill health means travel is out. Terribly sad but that's just how it is.

A minority of people wanting to travel cannot be used as justication for ending measures that protect lives, health - and the economy. The alternative - the UK way of 150,000 dead, others with heart, lung, and other damage, and ruined businesses from long repeated lockdowns? Nah, I'll take the Australian, New Zealand, East Asia way.

In any case, compassionate travel to and from Australia is allowed. Not always easy to arrange but it's a pandemic.

IcedPurple · 07/05/2021 17:14

@CarrieAntoinette

So when you said covid was now endemic *@IcedPurple*, you didn't have any basis on which to say that?
Take it up with Tim Spector, who said last week that the emergency phase has ended and that Covid is now endemic in the UK.

Or maybe you know better? I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make, to be frank.

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:14

@tobee

You said:

Well the virus that caused Spanish Flu has been circulating for a 100 years. Most people haven't been aware of that before last year. So Covid 19 lingering is maybe not the problem you seem to think it is

So I said:

Is there any evidence for that position? Is the global pandemic slowing down, or are the new variants becoming less dangerous than the older models?

Basically:
Is there any current indication to point to that happening with covid? Anything to indicate we should expect that to happen with covid?

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:16

The Bad Countries??? Confused Eh?
Covid is a virus. It's not a country.

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:20

@tobee

GoldenOmber said

I have a lot of faith in vaccines, which are the way out of this, up to and including not having any border measures at all.

to which I replied

One day.

Not this year.

Or next.

And your question is?

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:21

Pandemic border control means no discrimination by nationality or passport status. It's really very simple. It means restricted travel to only genuinely essential (without a million exemptions for mates of the government). It means all international arrivals (citizen, resident, or other) are screened, tested, tracked - and in most cases properly quarantined. Quarantine actually being quarantine. As in airport hotels or quarantine coach to quarantine hotel location. What it doesn't mean is busy public transport from airport to 'home quarantine'. It's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with nationality or passport status. It's everything to do with virus (including new strains) containment.

CarrieAntoinette · 07/05/2021 17:22

Tim Spector also said we were near herd immunity over three weeks ago @IcedPurple

That's bullshit too.

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:24

I mean, I'm still laughing. "Bad Countries"...? For much of the world, that would be us. We did, afterall, export one of the currently most virulent strains. It's the UK strain that first caused so much damage to India. We are the bad country.

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:25

The UK strain developed because we failed to contain the spread. It created perfect conditions for a new more virulent strain to mutate.

IcedPurple · 07/05/2021 17:26

@CarrieAntoinette

Tim Spector also said we were near herd immunity over three weeks ago *@IcedPurple*

That's bullshit too.

Well, if a random poster on MN said it's bullshit then clearly the renowned expert must be wrong then.
Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 17:29

Note that Tim Spector used words such as "near" and "could be". Not, "We definitely are already".

tobee · 07/05/2021 17:31

[quote CarrieAntoinette]@tobee

You said:

Well the virus that caused Spanish Flu has been circulating for a 100 years. Most people haven't been aware of that before last year. So Covid 19 lingering is maybe not the problem you seem to think it is

So I said:

Is there any evidence for that position? Is the global pandemic slowing down, or are the new variants becoming less dangerous than the older models?

Basically:
Is there any current indication to point to that happening with covid? Anything to indicate we should expect that to happen with covid? [/quote]

Is there any reason why you think it won't?

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