Sorry to be morbid, but who are the people now dying of Covid 19 in the UK?

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

Surely all the ECV people (both in terms of age or medical issues) have had 2 vaccines by now and had had them 28 days ago?

I am quite perturbed that our death rates are still so high tbh.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

Surely all the ECV people (both in terms of age or medical issues) have had 2 vaccines by now and had had them 28 days ago?

I am quite perturbed that our death rates are still so high tbh.

My cev ds has not had the vaccine because the fuckwits at the gp surgery refuse to vaccinate children it's against the government guidelines so if he gets it and dies I will be seeing them in court.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

Surely all the ECV people (both in terms of age or medical issues) have had 2 vaccines by now and had had them 28 days ago?

I am quite perturbed that our death rates are still so high tbh.

The vaccine isn't as effective for people with some medical conditions such as blood cancers.

Some people can't have the vaccine due to medical conditions/pregnancy.

Most under 50s havn't had it yet.

Many over 50s and ECV havn't had second dose yet

Younger people can still die of covid

Some people refuse the vaccine

No vaccine is 100% effective

So lots of reasons really

@Appyalpaca

HermioneWeasley It’s people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test, so dying “with” rather than necessarily “from”

Wrong.

The ONS death statistics show everyone who had died with covid as a cause. Their figure is over150,000. More than 20,000 greater than the gov’s within 28 days figure.

The poster is not wholly wrong, ans neither are you.

The stats haven’t been released on whether it was with Covid or because of Covid, but the government has said about one third of the deaths are with rather than because,

The data has been analysed to see who has been vaccinated that have died and the number is very low, it’s less than I think five. Since the program started. People who have caught it and are vaccinated have predominantly been infected at the point of vaccination already if not shortly after before immunity set in.

A large number of the population of not yet been vaccinated, the majority of under forties, but also about twenty percent refusers (or can’t for medical reasons) in the groups that have been offered it. These are the people who are predominant getting ill and dying. But the number is very very low due to the fact the at risk groups Have largely being vaccinated.

I’m surprised anyone thinks the number is high in light of the number of people vaccinated and taking into account those unvaccinated, as said, death from influenza is about ten times higher.

The recording of deaths in the UK has recently been updated to reflect the following:

the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.

the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

25 of yesterday’s death reported by nhs England

A few seemingly dragged out of nowhere.

6 more than four weeks old

10 London
6 NE and Yorks

12 over 80
12 60-79
1 40-59

7 from Kingston - mostly old reporting

Only other non singular death trusts have one that is an old recording.

But the good news is there was absolute no evidence for closing your cafe, your lunchtime sandwich place or even your local pub.

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/COVID-19-daily-announced-deaths-5-May-2021.xlsx

Why are you saying death rates are high? They are not. Cases are low now, and deaths are low.

@daisypetula - they aren’t ‘fuckwits’, the vaccine isn’t licensed for under 16s yet. Any doctor prescribing (or administering) is taking on the legal implications if something were to go wrong. If there were an adverse reaction (and the evidence is less robust here as trials are ongoing in children) then it would be on them to defend the reasoning for prescribing off book - I don’t want to be too alarmist but this might include coroners court (death post vaccine is obviously being kept a very close eye on at the moment). Not only is this hideously stressful for the clinician involved it could be escalated further to regulatory bodies (look at the suicide rates for doctors with GMC involvement). Same goes if a nurse etc administered it and they have historically even less protection. Even a lesser adverse reaction could lead to quite a critical look at the doctors reasoning to prescribe and how they weighed up the risks/balances. You’re asking somebody to take quite a large risk in prescribing medication and calling them ‘fuckwits’ and saying ‘you’ll see them in court’ implies that you’ve not really thought about this.

That said I completely get your frustration (although not your phrasing). I understand how scary it must be and I hope you don’t mind me pointing out the effect on the clinician. I’m a bit touchy about his after burning out of clinical medicine (been called a fuckwit too many times for things entirely out of my control).

You might find the resources on contact helpful for trying to arrange a vaccination for your children, their paediatrician/specialist who manages their conditions may be best placed to help as depending on what the condition is as they’re likely to have a greater grasp on the specific risk of negative outcome from COVID vs risk of negative outcome from vaccine. Depending on the condition they may we’ll have negotiated this before!

I think the most recent paper I read (apologies, details are a little fuzzy!) indicated a potential expansion of the licensing to include the under 16s from Autumn. That said Canada has expanded so it may be that data reassures the regulators and this is moved up.

contact.org.uk/getting-your-clinically-vulnerable-child-vaccinated-against-covid-19-advice-from-a-parent/

[quote Salacia]@daisypetula - they aren’t ‘fuckwits’, the vaccine isn’t licensed for under 16s yet. Any doctor prescribing (or administering) is taking on the legal implications if something were to go wrong. If there were an adverse reaction (and the evidence is less robust here as trials are ongoing in children) then it would be on them to defend the reasoning for prescribing off book - I don’t want to be too alarmist but this might include coroners court (death post vaccine is obviously being kept a very close eye on at the moment). Not only is this hideously stressful for the clinician involved it could be escalated further to regulatory bodies (look at the suicide rates for doctors with GMC involvement). Same goes if a nurse etc administered it and they have historically even less protection. Even a lesser adverse reaction could lead to quite a critical look at the doctors reasoning to prescribe and how they weighed up the risks/balances. You’re asking somebody to take quite a large risk in prescribing medication and calling them ‘fuckwits’ and saying ‘you’ll see them in court’ implies that you’ve not really thought about this.

That said I completely get your frustration (although not your phrasing). I understand how scary it must be and I hope you don’t mind me pointing out the effect on the clinician. I’m a bit touchy about his after burning out of clinical medicine (been called a fuckwit too many times for things entirely out of my control).

You might find the resources on contact helpful for trying to arrange a vaccination for your children, their paediatrician/specialist who manages their conditions may be best placed to help as depending on what the condition is as they’re likely to have a greater grasp on the specific risk of negative outcome from COVID vs risk of negative outcome from vaccine. Depending on the condition they may we’ll have negotiated this before!

I think the most recent paper I read (apologies, details are a little fuzzy!) indicated a potential expansion of the licensing to include the under 16s from Autumn. That said Canada has expanded so it may be that data reassures the regulators and this is moved up.

contact.org.uk/getting-your-clinically-vulnerable-child-vaccinated-against-covid-19-advice-from-a-parent/[/quote]
He's 16 so yes, I think they are fuckwits. The surgery in the village down the road are routinely doing 16 year olds and many of his friends have had it who are not cev or even cv.

Apologies, I read your post as implying a younger child.

@Salacia

Apologies, I read your post as implying a younger child.

No worries and sorry about your experiences.

Sorry! Posted too soon...

Have you tried the hubs if the GP isn’t being helpful? Presuming his friends who aren’t CV/CEV are carers, live with those who are etc as I don’t think under 40s not in these categories have been called yet? We had trouble booking in some CEV relatives earlier in the year and found after a few calls we managed to get through to somebody who could help where the GP couldn’t. Had to go to a hub through rather than a GP practice. I always presume there’s some sort of bureaucratic reason behind the scenes but the NHS expects people to mind read/is never good at explaining why which leads to (quite understandable) frustration.

Apologies if I’ve offended you.

@daisypetula

The best thing to do is contact your local CCG and ask them to arrange for your son to be seen in a GP hub who use Pfizer. There will be one, I expect it is the one you refer to. Your son doesn’t need to be registered with them to be vaccinated. Your GP should have sent him there anyway but no point in arguing. The CCG will sort it out and you can make noises about the Gp failing and maybe notifying NHSE that you weren’t offered a vaccine.

This gives the age split of weekly deaths recorded by the GP on the death certificate as involving Covid up to the end of April. You can see the effect of vaccinations in the way that the proportion of deaths from younger age groups steadily increases, but there is still a significant proportion of deaths amongst the very old. Some will have refused vaccination, some will have contracted Covid before their vaccination took effect and died from the effects many weeks later, some will have had true breakthrough where the vaccine simply didn’t protect them.

@Iknowtheanswer

Because some people who catch Covid are already very frail and unwell. Because some people have not been vaccinated. Because some people catch covid and them die of something else completely different within 28 days of the test and therefore count as a covid death.

This

You might die of several other reasons but if you have covid as well then it is reported as dying with covid..... many very frail people die all the time and some who don't appear frail to look at (heart attacks/strokes etc) they may also catch covid in hospital or whilst immune system weak or under attack from other illnesses and die WITH IT not from it

@HolmeH

Can I hijack & ask - my mum is on steroids for an autoimmune condition that’s not overly well controlled. She & my dad have had both jabs. We are in their bubble as we had a child under one when that rule came in.. so we see them indoors regularly. Should we have had our vaccines as well?! Reading PP seems to imply households of immunocompromised people have been.. we don’t live with them but see them several times a week, including my children who attend nursery.. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Or do bubbles not count?

Do you provide any 'care' for them since carers have been called up.

@Arrowheart

I'm not asking about cancer deaths or other deaths, I really have no idea why you brought those into it. Again, I don't need to get a grip, I haven't lost my grip on anything.

I have had my first jab, second one due in June. I am really pleased that we are coming out of lockdown and have already been out and about doing things that were restricted just a short while ago. I wonder what it is about my post that makes you think I need to check myself or get a grip?

Of course the death rate has slowed dramatically. Hooray! My question was genuinely who are the people now dying? I suppose I was thinking are they all unvaccinated people?

Some people have given informative answers on this thread - thanks to you all.

@GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam the death certificate says whether it was covid that killed them, or a contributory factor. About 90% of the 150,000 with covid on their death certificate died of covid. The rest it was a contributory factor.
But so many people want to minimise the deaths of those we care about.

@Salacia

Sorry! Posted too soon...

Have you tried the hubs if the GP isn’t being helpful? Presuming his friends who aren’t CV/CEV are carers, live with those who are etc as I don’t think under 40s not in these categories have been called yet? We had trouble booking in some CEV relatives earlier in the year and found after a few calls we managed to get through to somebody who could help where the GP couldn’t. Had to go to a hub through rather than a GP practice. I always presume there’s some sort of bureaucratic reason behind the scenes but the NHS expects people to mind read/is never good at explaining why which leads to (quite understandable) frustration.

Apologies if I’ve offended you.

I will try the hubs, thank you.

His friends live in a village and they have done all the over 18s so are now doing 16-18.

[quote fiheka]@GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam the death certificate says whether it was covid that killed them, or a contributory factor. About 90% of the 150,000 with covid on their death certificate died of covid. The rest it was a contributory factor.
But so many people want to minimise the deaths of those we care about.[/quote]
All deaths are important to those that love them, not only covid deaths but the thread is about the small number of people currently dying of covid. No one says it is unimportant and minimises them - but we cannot shut down society for covid anymore. At the start of the pandemic yes it was different but now more and more are vaccinated. Society didn't make a fuss about the flu deaths year on year - ok to minimise them then? Only covid deaths matter to some.