Are you still sticking to ALL of the rules?

[CallTheSheriff]

Our family has followed all rules to date but with two weeks left until social contact restrictions are lifted I see more and more people using a ‘common sense’ approach for their own risk.

My DC go to school (primary), attend swimming lessons, attend dance classes and indoor football classes but we decline the offer of play dates with other DC in their class.

DH and I have not mixed indoors with any other adult since last March. We both WFH and are both partially vaccinated. We do not attend gyms etc as we didn’t pre covid anyway.

Our friends and family think we are being OTT, especially in not allowing DC to visit others after school but allowing them to attend classes.

It made me wonder how others are doing it?

Tigger - that’s not true. The covid laws in Scotland were made by the Scottish government. Health protection is devolved.

@Mumbot345635

Middle parking - most people believe complying with the law is part of being a good person. I think it’s strange that you don’t!

You so contradictory

The laws in question who have said were illegally made and contravene human rights and were made by an an abhorrent government

And yet you are saying that by virtue of following them - you are by definition a good person

@Mumbot345635

Egghead but I respect the rule of law. We live in a democracy - if you don’t like the laws work to change them !

You respect laws that at the same time you describe as

Being illegally made
Constructed by an abhorrent government
Contravene human rights

I don’t think I’ve ever come across a more confusing poster

Sorry misread your post Tigger and Mumsnet doesn’t have an edit button!

If you don’t think it should be the governments remit to decide if you can hug your mum take it up with your MP. They banned households mixing to save lives. Individual sacrifice for the public good.

I don’t think there’s any contradiction egghead. Most people in the country feel like i do - they don’t agree with all the laws but they follow them. Law abiding is the basis of a civilised society. We have processes in this county to change laws we don’t agree with. Ignoring them/breaking them isn’t a way to change them - it just makes you individually someone who breaks the law.

@Mumbot345635

I don’t think there’s any contradiction egghead. Most people in the country feel like i do - they don’t agree with all the laws but they follow them. Law abiding is the basis of a civilised society. We have processes in this county to change laws we don’t agree with. Ignoring them/breaking them isn’t a way to change them - it just makes you individually someone who breaks the law.

It’s not that you don’t just “not agree” with them

You have said you think they’ve made illegally and contravene human rights

And yet you still follow to the letter.

I find that... baffling.

I think part of the difficulty here is the blurring of law and guidance, and indeed the fact that a great number of people went over and above even the guidance

It’s only very recently that I’ve broken the law. But I’ve deviated from the guidance at various points. And I never stuck to some of the more ludicrous social media demands like having to need to buy a minimum number of essential items to go into a shop or wearing a mask while jogging.

Yes and don't know anyone who isn't, except a few fully vaxed people meeting inside in bad weather

No. I have had people visit and stay over and have done the same at their houses

@Mumbot345635

Sorry misread your post Tigger and Mumsnet doesn’t have an edit button!

If you don’t think it should be the governments remit to decide if you can hug your mum take it up with your MP. They banned households mixing to save lives. Individual sacrifice for the public good.

I was asking your opinion. What would you do in my situation? Hug or not? Not seen her since 5 March 2020.

I do then fully intend to visit my dad after, as will be driving right past his door. Forecast is snow showers. So am thinking for someone who has heart issues and feels the cold much more as a result of his medication that we might see each other for half hour indoors. Selfish of me to consider his needs? Or should I make him sit in the garden? And then also why can I see my mum indoors (legally as in a coffee shop) but can't see my dad in his house, which is arguably safer?

Any kind of government is based on an unwritten social contract. If a government rides roughshod over that contract, illegally handing out contracts to its mates in the middle of a pandemic, continually reneging on promises, contually misleading, saying things like 'data not dates' then doing the opposite and basically pissing on those it rules over from a great height... Well the contract breaks down. And people say stuck your stupid nonsensical rules up your arse, given they were proposed by unelected scientists who don't live in the the real world and are being interpreted by petty, brain-dead officials.
We are still allowed to peacefully protest about this totalitarian nonsense although this government of ours has created a climate of such divisiveness - divide and rule - that those which choose to do is are now smeared and ridiculed by the rest.

Yes, but even I am considering breaking the ‘no indoor mixing’ rule on 16th May if it’s raining. Family member visiting and haven’t seen them for about 2 years.

@Mumbot345635

Middle parking - most people believe complying with the law is part of being a good person. I think it’s strange that you don’t!

Can you explain why you think it?

Tigger - is she vaccinated? Vulnerable to covid? Will you both take lateral flow tests?

If I was you, subject to the above. I would meet outdoors (legal) and hug (again legal - there is no legal distance requirement outdoors how could there be when we walk past people the whole time on the street). Wear a mask, take a lateral flow, you can hug and be law abiding! Enjoy!!

In England you can’t meet in a coffee shop.

Re your dad, same précautions but I certainly wouldn’t meet him indoors if he has heart conditions and therefore vulnerable to covid unless he has been fully vaccinated (ie both vaccines plus 3 weeks) because of the risk to him. You could meet at say his doorstep where he’s indoors and you are out. Quick masked hug outdoors then him go in again. Again legal, and safe.

@Mumbot345635

Don’t be ridiculous. Of course being law abiding is part time of being ‘good’. It’s not all of it but complying with national law is a fairly fundamental first part of being a good person, yes.

Riiight so anyone not following these ridiculous laws anymore aren't 'good' people?

Middle - because I was brought up to wit moral fibre. How can you know what’s right or wrong? It’s in our upbringing and inbuilt believe system. There have to been some rules governing how we interact with each other - if not national laws then agreed public norms about what is right and wrong. I don’t break laws as breaking laws hurts and harms other people. Here, in covid times it might not always be directly. But if I met someone indoors, passes on the virus and that then led to a chain of infections that then killed someone i would be to blame. I wouldn’t want that.

Saverhegrannies - yet people still vote conservative!

@Mumbot345635

Middle - because I was brought up to wit moral fibre. How can you know what’s right or wrong? It’s in our upbringing and inbuilt believe system. There have to been some rules governing how we interact with each other - if not national laws then agreed public norms about what is right and wrong. I don’t break laws as breaking laws hurts and harms other people. Here, in covid times it might not always be directly. But if I met someone indoors, passes on the virus and that then led to a chain of infections that then killed someone i would be to blame. I wouldn’t want that.

I know what’s right or wrong because of my own moral compass, not because of what the law says. If they made it legal tomorrow to murder people or vandalise buildings I still wouldn’t do it. You’ve said yourself these laws are undemocratic, made by a corrupt government. What does following them have to do with right or wrong? If you believe that it’s morally wrong to meet indoors because you could pass on a virus that’s a separate thing entirely to thinking it’s morally wrong to do it because it’s against the law. Personally, I think both of those viewpoints are barking mad.

I think because breaking the law seems like such an extreme deviation from what must be others moral compass too. If everyone believed the covid laws were wrong they wouldn’t be in place. Although yes, they’ve been illegally made and have breached human rights, the government is corrupt and untrustworthy I do believe covid restrictions have been (and are still) necessary to save lives. Very educated, clever people like sage have fed into the national laws in order to protect the public health. I believe and trust in them. They’ve done their best and I’m trying to support the public good by doing my best even though the government have sometimes got it wrong. I don’t think making up my own rights and wrongs in my head is good as I don’t have a view of what’s good for the public - only myself. I know I need to make individual sacrifice for others. Lockdown was never about protecting me and my family directly. Children in particular were asked to give up a lot for others.

I was told on another thread about breaking the rules/law around Covid that if you were prepared to break the law by having an illegal haircut or people round for dinner than you would also be prepared to murder your neighbour. Because breaking the law is breaking the law.

Some people have just had a massive attack of the crazies.

The thing is rasberry if your illegal hair cut had resulted in you getting covid and you passed that on to someone vulnerable to covid and they died (and this was all proven) you possibly could have committed manslaughter.

@Mumbot345635

The thing is rasberry if your illegal hair cut had resulted in you getting covid and you passed that on to someone vulnerable to covid and they died (and this was all proven) you possibly could have committed manslaughter.

What on Earth is this you’re on about now? Of course she couldn’t do you really think that?!

A lot of the rule breaking stuff that people are doing is not law just guidance and some is just imagined like the hour of exercise.

Middleoarking -yes! Because this is the case!

@Mumbot345635

I think because breaking the law seems like such an extreme deviation from what must be others moral compass too. If everyone believed the covid laws were wrong they wouldn’t be in place. Although yes, they’ve been illegally made and have breached human rights, the government is corrupt and untrustworthy I do believe covid restrictions have been (and are still) necessary to save lives. Very educated, clever people like sage have fed into the national laws in order to protect the public health. I believe and trust in them. They’ve done their best and I’m trying to support the public good by doing my best even though the government have sometimes got it wrong. I don’t think making up my own rights and wrongs in my head is good as I don’t have a view of what’s good for the public - only myself. I know I need to make individual sacrifice for others. Lockdown was never about protecting me and my family directly. Children in particular were asked to give up a lot for others.

It’s a shame for you that you feel like that, because clearly this shower have done a good number on you, but you shouldn’t confuse it with being morally correct or assume that others who disagree are morally incorrect.