Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots

[Whichjab]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

I have decided I’m quite mad.

I think this is a massive deal. We are knowingly vaccinating some people with a vaccine more likely to do harm than protect.

The press is silent.

But none of my friends seem bothered. Which in a way is amazing

And I can see why the government is doing it this way. Vaccinate our way out and accept the collateral damage. I might even make that decision myself.

But this means they have somehow silenced the press, the MHRA is no longer independent and medics are complicit.

To me this is a big deal but I think I am completely bonkers as no one else is discussing it. Back to wallpaper in number ten, it is

@Roonerspismed

I have decided I’m quite mad.

I think this is a massive deal. We are knowingly vaccinating some people with a vaccine more likely to do harm than protect.

The press is silent.

But none of my friends seem bothered. Which in a way is amazing

And I can see why the government is doing it this way. Vaccinate our way out and accept the collateral damage. I might even make that decision myself.

But this means they have somehow silenced the press, the MHRA is no longer independent and medics are complicit.

To me this is a big deal but I think I am completely bonkers as no one else is discussing it. Back to wallpaper in number ten, it is

Agree, even my friends IRL don't want to talk about it. They think I am crazy to be concerned over it. The press is complicit - they've been told not to scare monger and instead to promote the message that all vaccines are safe. You can't show a preference for one vaccine over another on mumsnet without being flamed for it.

Finally how can most of Europe hold one view while our scientists have access to special scientific resources that makes them draw the opposite conclusion to the rest.

I don't expect to see AZ used next year among the under 50s.

Maybe we just think differently. My brain is exhausting and questions things no one else does. It’s always been this way; it’s not new. It has often served me well and especially with big medical and financial decisions.

But god it’s exhausting. Why can’t I just take the bloody jab and not even read the insert?

@User135644

It's already been decided that the risk to the under 30's from vaccine complications outweighs the risk from covid.

But they do still need the vaccine to protect the elderly and vulnerable. It's not just about them.

I do many things to protect the elderly and the vulnerable, if not society in general, on a day to day basis. Covid specific - I wear a mask, practice good hygiene and follow the rules. More generally - I make sure I’m alert and responsible while driving, I teach my child to be respectful and helpful, I don’t send my child into school when ill. What I don’t do, and won’t ever do, is put chemicals in my early 30s body that doesn’t have underlying issues for the benefit of others over myself.

And before I’m asked - I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t use hormonal contraception and I’ve flown abroad once in my 33 years. I don’t take medication and I very rarely even take paracetamol.

I'm slightly worried they'll try to foist it on people who had Pfizer or Moderna first time but I think they'll just decide it's too much hassle to deal with.

I'm more than slightly worried they won't allow those of who've had the first jab to have the second! I will be gutted if that's the case.

We are knowingly vaccinating some people with a vaccine more likely to do harm than protect

No, we aren't. Millions of people have received the dose with little or nothing by way of side effects. The incidence of serious side effects is a tiny fraction.

No, we aren't. Millions of people have received the dose with little or nothing by way of side effects. The incidence of serious side effects is a tiny fraction.

The truth is the side effects were unexpected and they don’t have a clue what long term side effects may/WILL arise.
It’s all very hurried, somewhat understandably.

@pinkmagnolias

It sounds like they're planning to give everyone Pfizer

But they can’t be mixed. What a mess!!!

The trials for mixing are not finished, so you have no way of knowing that currently.

Have they decided that the under 50s will even get a booster in the autumn/next year? Guess it will depend on a number of factors including variants, the prevalence of Covid and how long immunity lasts, but I read that they were considering it for the priority groups (over 50s and CEV).

The trials for mixing are not finished, so you have no way of knowing that currently

But if they can't be mixed what then for people who have had AZ? Or will it be another case of whatever we have is better than nothing so stick that into your bodies too?

Did they even realise that was AZ could only be taken twice? When did that come to light? Why was AZ ever approved if they didn't know this and still don't know if another type of vaccine can be given to anyone who has had AZ?

It is a complete and utter mess!!!!

@User135644

Finally how can most of Europe hold one view while our scientists have access to special scientific resources that makes them draw the opposite conclusion to the rest.

But there isn’t a divergence between scientists. The EMA has consistently said the benefits outweigh the risks and, in fact, was even more lenient than the MHRA in not restricting it to any age group. A divergence between countries sure, but not scientists.

@pinkmagnolias

The trials for mixing are not finished, so you have no way of knowing that currently

But if they can't be mixed what then for people who have had AZ? Or will it be another case of whatever we have is better than nothing so stick that into your bodies too?

Did they even realise that was AZ could only be taken twice? When did that come to light? Why was AZ ever approved if they didn't know this and still don't know if another type of vaccine can be given to anyone who has had AZ?

It is a complete and utter mess!!!!

It's a known issue with viral vector vaccines, it's why we've not used one at scale before.

I have booked my vaccine for a few weeks away. It’s at a pharmacy so I’m pretty sure it’s Az. I don’t think I want Az. How do I go about changing this? Can anyone advise?

@Margaritawithlime it might be best to speak directly with the pharmacy. I imagine yours won't be the only enquiry they've had. In the meantime, more information may become available before you have to decide what you want to do. Keep an eye on this thread where new information is discussed

Margaritawithlime

If you are happy to wait, I’m sure you will be offered anything you want at some point just to get you to have the vaccination. Now that the most vulnerable are vaccinated, I can see the UK Gov doing a big turnaround on AZ in the near future in line with so many other countries. The younger population are far more questioning and slower to take AZ.

This is dated yesterday

publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2021/04/30/covid-19-vaccines-jcvi-recommendations-on-the-use-of-the-astrazeneca-vaccine/

France’s top health advisory body in charge of Covid-19 vaccines recommended on Friday that recipients of a first dose of the AstraZeneca shot who are under 55 should receive a second dose with a so-called messenger RNA vaccine.

Reuters reported on Thursday that the Haute Autorite de la Sante (HAS) had opted for the dose-mixing recommendation, which has not yet been evaluated in trials.

@Roonerspismed I am with you on this. It seems blindingly obvious to me that we should now stop rolling out a vaccine which is actually KILLING young, healthy, low-risk people. People going on about how "convenient for vaccinators" and "cheap" AZ is (see the other, current pro-AZ thread) sounds frankly macabre now. 9 more deaths from AZ in the last 7 days. While the mRNA vaccines continue to prove themselves superior in almost every respect. And not only are the press silent, the medical profession is (in general) silent too. They have been told to stay "on message". Meanwhile the press has become a docile mouthpiece for a government to which nothing sticks. It beggars belief.

And not only are the press silent, the medical profession is (in general) silent too. They have been told to stay "on message"

You really think the entire media and medical profession have been silenced? Do you think every vaccinator out there (and a big thanks to them all) is knowingly putting something dangerous into people's arms? Where is your proof for this?

I feel the same @Roonerspismed! I feel sick with worry about it and don’t even know what to say to friends and family. I know so many people who have already booked their jabs (or are being chased to do so) including my DH. I don’t want to try to talk anyone out of getting vaccinated, but I just wish they would wait.

Looking at the recent data, I don’t see how the JCVI can not change their advice. Then even if the over 40s won’t be offered a different vaccine, they will at least be better informed of the risks.

The link I posted above seems to suggest that the 30s will still get AZ. I was really hoping that wouldn't happen.

@PeasPeasPeas

The link I posted above seems to suggest that the 30s will still get AZ. I was really hoping that wouldn't happen.

I thought that too, but on reflection I think it’s just a blog post rehashing the most recent advice. I think they’d put out an official statement as it’s been reported that they were due to make a decision.

@Bunbury952 - re the over-40s, a risk changing from, eg, 1 in 250,000 to 1 in 50,000 doesn’t really mean much to a great many people, as it’s still an extremely rare event. Our hospitals are not being swamped by vaccine victims, whereas with far fewer covid infections in the community than we now have vaccinated people, we had absolute chaos. We’ve also been told women in their 40s are most at risk of getting long covid, so something else to factor in besides the possibility of death for 40-somethings. When in the balance is whether scientists think it is safe to keep re-opening society, or whether we are risking covid cases increasing exponentially again if the vaccine roll out has to pause while deliveries of more vaccines are awaited, you will not find everyone agrees it’s a good idea to stop encouraging people to come forward for the vaccines we actually have now, just in case an extremely rare event is going to be reported as still being extremely rare, but just a little bit less extremely rare than last week.

I'm amazed at how willing people are to overlook deaths of otherwise young, healthy low-risk people... with more deaths INEVITABLE if we keep rolling this out. Please stop talking about the risks of Covid OR the "inconvenience" of slowing down the roadmap... It is NOT a question of "vaccine versus virus" it is a question of reliable, safe, proven, efficacious vaccine (PFIZER/MODERNA) versus bargain-basement, flawed, less effective, "patriotic" vaccine (AZ). Oh, and did I mention deadly? The principle is INFORMED CONSENT. Suppressing relevant and meaningful information is NOT allowing people to give informed consent. And no, the whole media has not quite been silenced, FORTUNATELY: I suggest you read the Financial Times where you will find an entirely different take on this to the red-tops and government mouthpiece BBC. Most people have not been silenced: most people just DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. Seriously: ask your friends. How many of them are aware that nine more people died as a result of the AZ vaccine last week? If nine healthy people died from taking a supposedly safe over-the-counter drug last week it would be all over the front pages.

@Fieldofmemes

I'm amazed at how willing people are to overlook deaths of otherwise young, healthy low-risk people... with more deaths INEVITABLE if we keep rolling this out. Please stop talking about the risks of Covid OR the "inconvenience" of slowing down the roadmap... It is NOT a question of "vaccine versus virus" it is a question of reliable, safe, proven, efficacious vaccine (PFIZER/MODERNA) versus bargain-basement, flawed, less effective, "patriotic" vaccine (AZ). Oh, and did I mention deadly? The principle is INFORMED CONSENT. Suppressing relevant and meaningful information is NOT allowing people to give informed consent. And no, the whole media has not quite been silenced, FORTUNATELY: I suggest you read the Financial Times where you will find an entirely different take on this to the red-tops and government mouthpiece BBC. Most people have not been silenced: most people just DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. Seriously: ask your friends. How many of them are aware that nine more people died as a result of the AZ vaccine last week? If nine healthy people died from taking a supposedly safe over-the-counter drug last week it would be all over the front pages.

I am DEFINITELY going to change my opinion after reading this fact filled, scientifically thought out piece with no bias.