Which would you prefer re masks?

[PuzzledObserver]

The BBC live news page just now was saying there are “hints” that masks and SD may be dropped over the summer.... but there is a risk they will be reintroduced over the winter.

What would you prefer? I mean, presumably ditch them immediately and for ever, but if that’s not possible, would you rather:

a) have a break over the summer in the knowledge they’ll be back towards the end of the year;

b) keep them until we’re certain they will never be back.

I would choose a, by the way.

Let's drop them and let's make it a personal choice for people who want to protect themselves wear decent quality ones that will protect them.

@DottyWott nah, not just you. It’s a general niggle I have at the moment. And yes, I have read the review. But, I’ve also read studies that say other things about masks and benefit vs risk/cost. I have had to make it my business due to doing a lot of advocacy for patients who are mask exempt - and working with health anxiety on the other side too. What we’re basically dealing with here is uncertainty, which by our very nature humans don’t like, so we seek certainty where really there isn’t any. Dogmatic adherence to a particular scientific line “because science”, for some, is filling the uncertainty gap. For others it’s conspiracies. Two sides of the same coin.

For me it’s also not just “effectiveness” that needs to be considered either. Lobotomy was effective, but we consider it highly unethical now. Thalidomide - also a good example of a drug that had good effects in one area and unintended ones in another. Science can’t always provide moral and ethical answers.

@PuzzledObserver

50% of the adult population vaxed and increasing every day, good evidence that vaccination stops you spreading it - so why are we wearing masks?

Because 50% are not vaccinated? Many of those are at low risk of serious outcomes if they catch it - but not all, and low risk is not no risk.

Life is full of risk. The risk of becoming very ill if you're in the currently unvaccinated group (which is lower than the 50% quoted anyway) is extremely low. Risk cannot be completely eliminated and it's a fool's errand to attempt to do so.

My take would be to make mask wearing optional - that way, those who wish to can absolutely continue wearing them. And those who cannot wear them would no longer be subject to the abuse and judgement we've endured for months.

@Stoptalkingtome

I bloody love masks, I'm going to be really sad when they go. I'll keep on wearing as long as possible.

You can wear one indefinitely. Just because they'll one day no longer be compulsory doesn't mean you have to stop wearing one.

A

@Buzzinwithbez

Let's drop them and let's make it a personal choice for people who want to protect themselves wear decent quality ones that will protect them.

That’s a great idea. I’d support that.

I suspect masks remind (some) people to do things that might reduce transmission, like keep a bit of distance and not endlessly touch things and put them back. But otherwise they are completely pointless.

A a thousand times over. Well C and get rid for good, but if that really isn't an option then definitely A.

They are not a way of life but a reminder of how shite these last 13/14 months have been.

B or at least optional.

A. Unless something goes very wrong, but next winter, all adults will be vaccinated or at least have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. Theres a good chance it won't be bad enough to have them back, but if we cling on to them through the summer, we'll be clinging on for a zero covid situation to get rid and so won't.

I hate masks. Really hate them. Have to wear them at work, and really not looking forward to mask and work in a heat wave. (And with the windows open for covid reasons, the air con won't work.)

A - I only wear one because I have to

A - would love to get rid permanently but can see we might have to reintroduce in winter once cases rise again. But yes think we should take the opportunity to ditch them while the weather is good and transmission is low.

[quote Racoonworld]@Thisisconfusing We’re you worried about post viral syndrome pre-covid? It’s always been a thing, there’s always been the risk you might get it. I know people who have got it from flu and other viruses and now have long term complications and CFS.[/quote]
I’ve tried to find studies on this but can’t, does anyone know if it’s definitely been confirmed that long covid is exactly the same as previously existing post viral complications? Or is it a separate/new thing? Thanks to anyone who knows!

As a lab person who is used to manage infection and transmission risk, I think that the requirement for masks will have to adapt to the risk.
The main risk is very close contact and lack of ventilation. Summer or Winter, doesn't matter. A non ventilated environment is still risky.
The other factor is prevalence. If prevalence is lower, then we can relax a bit, as a group. If it's higher, then wearing masks is a better idea.
If you're vulnerable, wearing masks is always a good idea, unless outdoors and distancing.

Can I choose Option C?

Remove the mandatory mask wearing and of course people will wear them if you choose to. I see half of the people out and about (outside in the fresh air walking down the street etc) wearing masks when there is no rule to do so, so presume once the rules change that quite a few people will choose to still wear them.

I hate the fact my son has to wear one in the classroom and am delighted to hear this rule is likely to be changed on 17th May.

“ I’ve tried to find studies on this but can’t, does anyone know if it’s definitely been confirmed that long covid is exactly the same as previously existing post viral complications? Or is it a separate/new thing? Thanks to anyone who knows!”

I imagine it’s far too early to say in terms of whether it’s the same or worse than other viruses, as different viruses will have different effects on different people. The sheer number of people infected with covid during a short space of time of course makes post covid complications more prevalent, and it’s too early to say what the longer term implications are (further long term than 15 ish months of course).

What pisses me off is (a) the implication that in likening or comparing long covid with other post viral complications people are trivialising or minimising it - quite the opposite, those who complain are the ones trivialising other post-viral complications - and (b) the pious “if you’re prepared to take the risk...” as though we haven’t all been taking the risk of ourselves or our loved ones developing post viral complications as we previously went about without masks and leaving our disease-ridden droplets hanging in the air. I have loved ones with post viral complications lasting 10-20 years, which are life-limiting, and make them more vulnerable to covid in itself. I know full fucking well how bad things can be even after surviving a virus

Neither. Get rid of both forever.

D, everybody to wear one in public at all times until they can prove they are able to follow basic hygiene and cover their mouths when they cough/sneeze. It's been fabulous not catching a cold for over a year, I usually pick one up from customers at work every month and they make life miserable!

I would prefer the decision followed the science not public opinion.

Not sure why many posters are so irate/angry about wearing them. In RL I hear people who are against them, saying 'I don't like wearing them' , 'Wish I didn't have to wear one' , 'I'm not wearing one' etc., but have never heard anger about them.

B because if it helps keep us out of the s* longer the better life will eventually be and one day we can say goodbye to the blasted things.

PuzzledObserver Can you link to that BBC page please? Where does it say we might be able to stop wearing masks over the summer?
Personally I’d love to ditch them once and for all but I don’t think our opinions will be taken into consideration 😞

@Racoonworld having had a really nasty post viral illness for a year following Epstein Barr ( glandular fever) at 23 , and with a DN with fibromyalgia ( who missed whole of Year 8) - yes I do think LongCovid is worth paying attention to and avoiding actually . The difference is that no one knows who will get them and that is true of Long Covid (only asthmatics have been identified as a risk group so far) If you have a child who is higher risk Long Covid because she has the double whammy of being asthmatic and female ( check out the work done by Kings College on this ) then I will worry until she is vaccinated . We all want to get back to our normal life but i find it deeply offensive when people suggest she should hide away at home . there are plenty of extremely vulnerable children already doing that who are waiting juvenile vaccination programme . . The trouble is those that think their need to return to normal life trumps the rights of others to eg safe schooling I think that says more about you really . So in other words if it were your child you would I be happy for them to stay at home and miss school so others didn’t get a bit sweaty in a mask ? I would prefer the collateral damage to be kept as low as possible since so many lives have already been affected especially the kids. Obviously if you do end up being unlucky please note that the £10m Govt gave to LongCovid clinics doesn’t go very far. But I guess if you are happy with your approach to risk which also impacts others then I guess you will be happy with that . By the way those with ME/fibro plight has been ignored for years . NHS has been pretty poor for post viral syndromes and a bit of a postcode lottery . These can be serious life changing conditions - I was lucky and got better . My oldest friend has not been so lucky with Long Covid and now has a lifelong heart condition, and an old friend of my daughters who is 17 has been referred to a lung clinic because of her breathlessness. Long Covid can seriously muck up lives of young people . Don’t underestimate it .

I’ve tried to find studies on this but can’t, does anyone know if it’s definitely been confirmed that long covid is exactly the same as previously existing post viral complications? Or is it a separate/new thing? Thanks to anyone who knows!

There's no one answer because 'long covid' isn't a specific diagnosis. It means having any symptoms/complications a certain amount of time after getting covid: I've seen studies looking at 5 weeks post-covid and 12 weeks post-covid.

I have two acquaintances who have long covid. One has been diagnosed with POTS, the other is suspected to have CFS. These are both previously existing post-viral syndromes.

Where's the C option? Ditch the hideous things, never to be seen again. B is never going to be an option now that people have shown they will wear them without a great deal of fuss. They'll be back again.