Which would you prefer re masks?

[PuzzledObserver]

The BBC live news page just now was saying there are “hints” that masks and SD may be dropped over the summer.... but there is a risk they will be reintroduced over the winter.

What would you prefer? I mean, presumably ditch them immediately and for ever, but if that’s not possible, would you rather:

a) have a break over the summer in the knowledge they’ll be back towards the end of the year;

b) keep them until we’re certain they will never be back.

I would choose a, by the way.

@PrincessNutNuts - problem with that is the science has always said we'd be safer to avoid doing lots of things we like. There does need to be a balance between what is best for us, and what we want/will put up with and still consider life to be worth living.

So @MargosKaftan you are happy to have a vaccine produced by science but otherwise dismiss what it says . For what it’s worth I agree we have to find a balance - lives have to be worth living. At this stage I don’t think frivolous stuff trumps health . It hard with those people who feel invincible baying for the speeding up of normality - each week more are vaccinated so why the rush .

B) But then my (unpopular opinion on here) preference would be for a permanently more civic minded society like Japan. They wear them when ill out of courtesy to others particularly the more vulnerable (of all ages). Like I say, I'm aware that's not a popular idea in the UK.

How does “science” determine a scale of frivolity though? Some things will be clear cut but much still comes down ultimately to humans making decisions one way or another which will be fairly arbitrary

@BooblePlate

“ I’ve tried to find studies on this but can’t, does anyone know if it’s definitely been confirmed that long covid is exactly the same as previously existing post viral complications? Or is it a separate/new thing? Thanks to anyone who knows!”

I imagine it’s far too early to say in terms of whether it’s the same or worse than other viruses, as different viruses will have different effects on different people. The sheer number of people infected with covid during a short space of time of course makes post covid complications more prevalent, and it’s too early to say what the longer term implications are (further long term than 15 ish months of course).

What pisses me off is (a) the implication that in likening or comparing long covid with other post viral complications people are trivialising or minimising it - quite the opposite, those who complain are the ones trivialising other post-viral complications - and (b) the pious “if you’re prepared to take the risk...” as though we haven’t all been taking the risk of ourselves or our loved ones developing post viral complications as we previously went about without masks and leaving our disease-ridden droplets hanging in the air. I have loved ones with post viral complications lasting 10-20 years, which are life-limiting, and make them more vulnerable to covid in itself. I know full fucking well how bad things can be even after surviving a virus

Thank you for your reply and I’m sorry you’ve got experience of post viral issues, they must be horrendous. I totally agree with what you say too.

@Siepie

I’ve tried to find studies on this but can’t, does anyone know if it’s definitely been confirmed that long covid is exactly the same as previously existing post viral complications? Or is it a separate/new thing? Thanks to anyone who knows!

There's no one answer because 'long covid' isn't a specific diagnosis. It means having any symptoms/complications a certain amount of time after getting covid: I've seen studies looking at 5 weeks post-covid and 12 weeks post-covid.

I have two acquaintances who have long covid. One has been diagnosed with POTS, the other is suspected to have CFS. These are both previously existing post-viral syndromes.

Thank you for explaining, it makes a bit more sense now I’ve read that.

I'd prefer to just stop.
But option A

@Tealightsandd

B) But then my (unpopular opinion on here) preference would be for a permanently more civic minded society like Japan. They wear them when ill out of courtesy to others particularly the more vulnerable (of all ages). Like I say, I'm aware that's not a popular idea in the UK.

Is it unpopular? I’ve heard it loads as an opinion

I wear a mask at work , i hate every second of it , masks have been the worse part of lockdown for me .
Pretty much i am avoiding shopping , won't be going to a museum , theatre etc until mask wearing over , sure many feel like this.
I don't believe they are efficient , too many different ones , diy , handmade, underchin jobs .
Also really concerned about the environmental issues so many on the ground.
I want masks to end in june or sooner would be better, and if you want to wear them after then or in winter that's your choice .

@thisisconfusing - that's not what I said. There needs to be a balance.

Re the vaccine, yes I'm happy for science to provide it. However if the vaccine say, cost £500, or could only be accessed via a trip to Scotland (am in SE england), or you had to take a week unpaid leave after having it - or something else that made it inconvenient - then as someone who's low risk from covid, I might not bother having it, no matter how good it was for the nation that I did.

Mask and restrictions need to be seen in a similar way. Its been a year. What was necessary when there was no vaccine and hundreds dying each day from covid are not as necessary when the numbers are low of those with covid and those with it aren't dying from it.

It would be interesting to know how many of those who are "masks forever!" types ever drink or smoke or are overweight. There does seem to be a huge fear from this particular cause of death but relaxed attitudes to others.

Regarding long covid. Doctors are seeing heart and lung damage (seen in scans). They're also looking into cases of diabetes that appear to have been triggered by it.

@BooblePlate I'm pleased to know being more civic minded perhaps isn't quite as unpopular as threads like this suggest.

@MargosKaftan and nor did I say masks forever - just until more protected .
Actually none of those apply to us but if I were really obese or an alcoholic it would only affect my health not yours . And there are rules to stop smokers harming others . The problem with Covid if that those who assess their risk as low can sometimes be wrong and can also sometimes do a lot of harm to other people . I hope if the positions were reversed I might be more altruistic . But everyone has a right to think differently .

Do we think those in favour of keeping masks maybe more Jo Brand than Liv Tyler in the looks department?

Yes we need to learn to live with this but to those desperate to return to normal are you ok to accept you might be one of the unlucky ones in a lung clinic ( I know a 17yo) or with a heart issue ( friend spent Xmas in hospital due to heat condition bequeathed by Covid)

Yes, I am very much past giving a toss. I’m vulnerable (not CEV) and would never expect people to live a life of restrictions to protect me hence I’m not willing to do it for others either. No doubt that makes me selfish but I don’t care, I’m comfortable with that label, it’s been parroted so much in the last year to become meaningless

I work all day in a mask and I cannot wait to see an end to it. I'll vote for whatever it takes.

“Regarding long covid. Doctors are seeing heart and lung damage (seen in scans). They're also looking into cases of diabetes that appear to have been triggered by it.”

All three of these seen in my relative with post viral complications (who is himself vulnerable to covid as a result). In his case, the diabetes is due to steroids used to treat the inflammatory condition that was triggered by a virus.

Not minimising, this is serious and life limiting in my relative’s case, but highlighting that this is not unheard of in my experience

@BooblePlate it wasn't unheard of before but doctors say it is more frequent and complex with covid, from what I have read.

Yes, that doesn’t surprise me, particularly when you look at sheer numbers infected all at once

@LastChanceToChange

Do we think those in favour of keeping masks maybe more Jo Brand than Liv Tyler in the looks department?

Yes yes yes. Without a doubt.

Does that mean all the people who want to get rid of masks think they are really hot then?

@LastChanceToChange. FFS what a ridiculous comment . .

A please

I'm used to my mask now, I'd go for B as used to doing it anyway and would feel well weird being in a shop or wherever without it on
Also don't want to take away too soon just in case need to re-introduce later down the line.

Do we think those in favour of keeping masks maybe more Jo Brand than Liv Tyler in the looks department?

WTF lol

B as I think it would be really hard to get people wearing them again after a period of not wearing them.

I think a large number of people are already fed up with them though and either not wearing them or not wearing them properly. I went to the shops yesterday for the first time since lockdown and saw a huge number of people either not wearing a mask or wearing it under their nose or pulled down round their neck.