Which would you prefer re masks?

[PuzzledObserver]

The BBC live news page just now was saying there are “hints” that masks and SD may be dropped over the summer.... but there is a risk they will be reintroduced over the winter.

What would you prefer? I mean, presumably ditch them immediately and for ever, but if that’s not possible, would you rather:

a) have a break over the summer in the knowledge they’ll be back towards the end of the year;

b) keep them until we’re certain they will never be back.

I would choose a, by the way.

I’ll still be wearing a mask, perhaps permanently. It’s become legally and socially acceptable to cover your face in public now, whereas before you’d have been stopped when entering a public place and asked to take it off. I wear dark glasses too and I love the anonymity. People who know me have walked straight past on many occasions and I can choose not to talk to them if I don’t feel like it.

It’s not that hard to wear a mask is it?

Tell that to my patients who have PTSD from sexual assault and rape and get severe anxiety and flashbacks from having their nose and mouth covered. I’ll leave the rest of the blanks to you to fill in.

Tell that to my autistic patients and those with sensory processing disorders.

Tell that to people with chronic lung conditions.

Massively ableist statement.

If we cant compare England with Sweden why can we compare England with India.

dear god. this thread is like the depths of all the nonsense out there. Yes, masks work; yes, there's evidence they reduce aerosol transmission; no, it won't be enough to just jettison them once a chunk of people are vaccinated;
masks massively reduced the second wave.
the vast majority of people can wear a mask with very little side-effect; yes, of course there are vulnerable people out there, but actually many autistics will want to wear a mask (it's following the rules and can feel more safe) and I genuinely don't know of many chronic lung conditions where the desire not to wear a mask outweighs the risk of catching covid.

masks massively reduced the second wave.

That's a major and very specific claim. What's your evidence?

So there’s good evidence that masks do work - that’s why we wear them in healthcare settings (& have done way before c19)

The masks worn by healthcare proefessionals are very different fromt the strips of fabric worn by the general public. Plus, they are trained in their use. Not at all the same as a flimsy mask worn for maybe sevral days at a time and constantly fiddled with.

Masks did not stop the second wave though did they?

Because the second wave was due to people flounting rules and meeting inside without sufficient precautions, largely.

Masks, for example, should also be used in the context of distancing.

But nobody is going to say that distancing or ventilation should be scrapped because they didn't avoid a second wave. Or because some people don't apply distancing or ventilation properly.

“many autistics will want to wear a mask (it's following the rules and can feel more safe) and I genuinely don't know of many chronic lung conditions where the desire not to wear a mask outweighs the risk of catching covid”

Yes, it’s almost as if not all neurodivergent people are the same isn’t it! however I’ve been dealing with quite a few who are distressed by masks but feel unable to use their legit exemption (because rules and fear of being confronted) so will push through it and risk overload/meltdown. In which case, as a MH professional I’m over here saying my patients’ mental health and ability to day to day function/shop for food without distress trumps the comfort of the mask zealots.

I am one of those people who has a chronic lung condition and doesn’t wear a mask anywhere I have to be for a long period of time. Because a) can’t breathe properly in one and b) those flimsy things the public wear do shite all if they’re not proper PPE anyway except make people feel psychologically safer. Worked face to face mask free in healthcare settings since last June, through two lockdowns. Never had Covid (yes been tested on the regular). Maybe I’m lucky or maybe my patients/colleagues are just sensible adults who don’t come to appointments/work if they’re sick. Who knew.

Because the second wave was due to people flounting rules and meeting inside without sufficient precautions, largely.

Do you have a link? Because it sounds an awful lot like you just pulled that out your backside.

masks massively reduced the second wave.

So this would be the second wave that was much bigger than the first wave before we had to wear them. Right.

Anyway none of it matters to me because I’ll never be wearing one again come the summer. I’m over being told what to do by unelected scientists and corrupt politicians, they are taking us for mugs.

I don’t feel any safer wearing one than I do not wearing them.

The sooner they’re gone the better.

Anecdotal but I worked in a department of around 30ish people throughout all three lockdowns with mandatory masks from last summer. Masks were only allowed off for eating/drinking and there was one communal space limited to two people for eating purposes. Twice weekly LFT’s for pretty much 100% of staff afaik.

There was an outbreak in January and it was an interesting pattern to observe of people who tested positive (about 10, a couple of which were picked up be LFT’s) and their general behaviours in the office including who are exclusively ate at their distanced desk, opened a window, generally took the measures seriously, who was ‘forgetful’ of putting their mask on if they had an office and invited people in and who didn’t.

From what I saw myself I’m confident masks make a difference, especially combined with other measures.

Because the second wave was due to people flounting rules and meeting inside without sufficient precautions, largely

Equating illness with moral failing. Yes that always ends well.

This kind of behaviour and assumptions that people are ill because they broke rules is going to massively backfire when the public are asked to sign petitions against the privatisation of the NHS.

I’m over being told what to do by unelected scientists and corrupt politicians

So, you don't trust elected or not elected.
Who do you trust? Covid deniers?
Not the scientists who identified, created vaccines, treatments and, yes, study the dynamics and preventative measures?
Interesting.

Get rid all together.

So if the 2nd wave was down to people mixing indoors etc. Why are we not in a 3rd. Because no exaggeration I'd say 90% of people on my fb all mix indoors. Including me since last year,
Others on my fb have dinner parties, so ail gatherings. Work 'dos' etc

My friend and her partner who did contract it, were prob one of the only ones who didn't flout the rules, just went to work and that was it. Haven't even seen their 3m old granddaughter yet.

Why are we not in a 3rd.

Because vaccines and low numbers?

If the prevalence is low, chances of getting infected are lower. You only get a fast rise when the probability of one in the group being infected is high enough.
But, between people who have already had it, or were in contact, and vaccinations, the likelihood of transmission is lower. Plus, in warmer weather people are more likely to have open windows and doors, than during a cold winter.
But if enough susceptible people keep meeting indoors with no masks or no ventilation, we will see another rise in cases.

@RedcurrantPuff

masks massively reduced the second wave.

So this would be the second wave that was much bigger than the first wave before we had to wear them. Right.

You have no way of knowing whether the second wave was bigger than the first wave because during the first there was significantly less testing than during the second.

You have no way of knowing whether the second wave was bigger than the first wave because during the first there was significantly less testing than during the second

I agree that it is very difficult to extrapolate data to evidence it one way or another. You can look at the fatalities and see that back in the first wave these rose much faster than our second, even levelling off for a period over the autumn.

Of course, this is as a result of lots of different restrictions and a lockdown, but I suspect to really judge the effectiveness of masks you would need to drill down into the patterns of infection pathways etc.

Case studies certainly exist but if we’re all being honest with ourselves on here we’re looking to prove our existing opinion and only likely to accept 100% absolutes that go against that and you won’t find that for either side.

@1stMrsF

I don't care for myself but please ditch them immediately forever in classrooms.

Here's some more information on this, for anyone that is interested: It's been reported in the Telegraph and Daily Mail that PHE "did not consider" the negative health impacts of requiring children to wear facemasks in the classroom.

Nick Gibb, Minister for School Standards questioned about this today commented that children 'didn't seem to mind' wearing masks, even though the Government's own survey found that 80% of children are struggling to communicate wearing a mask and more than 50% felt it was affecting their ability to learn.

There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that wearing masks for prolonged periods can have a negative impact on physical and mental health, especially in children who are more susceptible to the effects.

This article collates information from 44 experimental studies and 65 publications on the side effects of face masks. A wide variety of statistically significant confirmed side effects and dangers are reported and the article notes “Children are particularly vulnerable and may be more likely to receive additional harm” and “repeated exposure over longer periods is relevant. Long-term disease-relevant consequences of masks are to be expected.”

This study published in Germany where data was collected from a total of 25,930 children wearing a face mask for an average of 270 mins a day found that 68% reported impairments including irritability (60%), headache (53%), difficulty concentrating (50%), less happiness (49%), reluctance to go to school (44%), malaise (42%), impaired learning (38%) and drowsiness or fatigue (37%)

@Lweji

"The role of chance in pandemics was well illustrated in controlled epidemic studies of mice by William Topley and Major Greenwood between 1920 and 1940. The pair admitted that "hundreds of thousands of mice were sacrificed" in their meticulous process of controlling myriad variables, type of infection, type of mouse , degree of overcrowding, "mousehold" size, the level of pre existing immunity, nutrition, genetic variations etc.

The overriding conclusion is that even when you control as much as you possibly can, chance events contribute greatly to the patterns and speed of spread in epidemics. This is not surprising given that viruses mutate at random. Alas "some shit happens by chance" is the excuse history never forgives and the media never accepts"

MD Private Eye.

Masks have nothing to with infection, infection rate or preventing illnesses.

We we told not to use masks until Tory donors were in a position to profit from their enforced use, at that point it was mask mask mask killing granny if you don’t.

@Suranjeep

Masks have nothing to with infection, infection rate or preventing illnesses.

We we told not to use masks until Tory donors were in a position to profit from their enforced use, at that point it was mask mask mask killing granny if you don’t.

In your opinion.

You think mumsnet is based on anything other that the various posters eccentric opinions?