Which would you prefer re masks?

[PuzzledObserver]

The BBC live news page just now was saying there are “hints” that masks and SD may be dropped over the summer.... but there is a risk they will be reintroduced over the winter.

What would you prefer? I mean, presumably ditch them immediately and for ever, but if that’s not possible, would you rather:

a) have a break over the summer in the knowledge they’ll be back towards the end of the year;

b) keep them until we’re certain they will never be back.

I would choose a, by the way.

The actual scientific evidence for masks supports that they reduce transmission of Covid 19 and other respiratory viruses. This is a good summary here: www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

There is reference to the study in the US that looked at states with and without mask mandates and found slower growth in those states with mask mandates.

There’s a study referred to that looks at home made cloth masks in a flu pandemic and finds they reduce spread by reducing droplets.

There are studies from other respiratory diseases which show a reduction in spread of 70-80% when masks worn.

A study in Hong Kong, where mask compliance is high, found clusters of COVID-19 outbreaks in mask free areas significantly more common than mask-on areas.

Another study found that transmission was 7.5 times higher in countries that did not have a mask mandate or universal mask use.

It goes on but you get the drift. There is good evidence for the effectiveness of masks and a lot of misinformation on this thread along the lines of “I’ve heard they don’t even work anyway” - simply not true.

A

Would be such a clear sign that we are getting back to normal

You have to be tested to see if you’re fit to wear one of those N95 surgical ones
A "fit test" is to ensure that the mask has an effective seal around the face without gaps. It is not to see "if you're fit" and anyone can wear one (though I believe it isn't comfy for anybody because they are very tight).

@LastChanceToChange
This what WHO say about masks:

Masks are a key measure to suppress transmission and save lives.

Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive ‘Do it all!’ approach including physical distancing, avoiding crowded, closed and close-contact settings, good ventilation, cleaning hands, covering sneezes and coughs, and more.

Depending on the type, masks can be used for either protection of healthy persons or to prevent onward transmission.

A

I think the transmission risks are quite different in summer when the sun is strong, compared to the cool damp winter virus season.

So I'd want to make hay whilst the sun shines, but know that we may have to be more prudent from the autumn. But one hopes without need to lockdown again (only likely to be needed if there is a new variant against which the vaccines don't work well enough)

I think masks should stay in medical setting and on public transport (especially undergrounds)

People be quoting “the science” without actually critically looking at what the studies did, who funded them, bias, the cultural context etc. The public really needs a lot more education on how to interpret science. It ain’t a religion.

In my (mental health) field, “the science” at one time supported all manner of abusive treatments and practices such as conversion therapy. Just because something is “effective” also doesn’t mean it’s ethical.

B - because there are plenty of your asthmatics you haven’t been vaccinated yet . The Govt decided not to distinguish between those who have the occasional puff of an inhaler to those like my DD1 who needs three medications to breathe properly - she gets through stacks of inhalers and does breathing physio twice a day . Asthmatics are the only group carved out of the flu jab list that haven’t been vaccinated early - but yet there is strong and increasing evidence that asthmatics the more likely to be hospitalised abs receive critical care and the only group who have been identified at risk of long Covid. I know DD1 is unlikely to die but frankly I’m fed up that she is ok collateral damage in the PMs mind. She gave up education to protect the NHS which now won’t protect her . So please spare a thought for them - they might be cutting your hair ( my hairdresser is a young asthmatic ) or teaching your child etc but this sodding government is giving the message that all vulnerables are protected . They aren’t . So I will happily continue to wear a mask . Oh and kids can get long Covid too . They are not protected.

[quote DottyWott]@LastChanceToChange
This what WHO say about masks:

Masks are a key measure to suppress transmission and save lives.

Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive ‘Do it all!’ approach including physical distancing, avoiding crowded, closed and close-contact settings, good ventilation, cleaning hands, covering sneezes and coughs, and more.

Depending on the type, masks can be used for either protection of healthy persons or to prevent onward transmission.[/quote]
Not what they said originally...

@YorkiePanda if you’re referring to me you opulent be more wrong. I assume you read the review, which went through the limitations of the studies and eliminated several with good reasons?

@LastChanceToChange no originally they said “not enough evidence”, now they have evidence they’ve changed their view. I’m not aware of them ever saying they are harmful.

*Couldn’t be, not sure why opulent made it in there !

B makes more sense to me as prevention is better than cure but tbh over summer I don't think I will go many places that require one for long periods so I am not much impacted by the wearing of them.

In which case I defer to shop workers etc rather than shoppers IYSWIM as I will be in the suermarket for half an hour, they are there the whole day.

I am concerned about government desire to get rid of them in schools at around the same time as cases will be rising again according to the government's own modelling (mid-May).

Sorry that should say young asthmatics not your asthmatics !

Thisisconfusing that is very hard.

Can I ask how old is your dd and does she still go into school?

@LastChanceToChange actually the WHO advised masks in both their SARS and MERS advice pre-pandemic and it was only briefly changed when the global supply was threatened before changing it back. Not an action I agree/d with despite explanations of why but the WHO are not infallible. Personally I believe the damage they did is unforgivable and very badly judged by all who went along with it.

Aside from that and associated politics, medicine and science are constantly evolving. Just because something was considered fact at one point doesn’t devalue updated advice, if you’re going 59 get the best from what modern science has to offer you need to be open to new and updated findings. There were accounts of people rubbing the blood of bubonic plague victims into their faces but I think we can all agree that it turns out that was bonkers and we should follow later advice not to do that.

59 = to

@beginningoftheend. I agree about schools. Whilst kids don’t die from Covid I don’t think people realise that they can get sick from Long Covid . I’m sure their teachers would prefer it too if they haven’t been vaccinated yet . Also plenty of CV and CEV kids under 16 not vaccinated as well as asthmatic kids. And if you have DD they are 5x more likely to get long Covid . The focus has been on deaths . Now that is under control people need to understand that anyone’s life can change if you get Long Covid. I know several who are having an awful time. Yes we need to learn to live with this but to those desperate to return to normal are you ok to accept you might be one of the unlucky ones in a lung clinic ( I know a 17yo) or with a heart issue ( friend spent Xmas in hospital due to heat condition bequeathed by Covid). Just be careful is what i am saying . I think the saying is be careful what you wish for

Well it’s only now that you give a shit about the risk of post viral conditions isn’t it. Some of us have been aware of it and supporting loved ones with long term post viral complications long before covid appeared.

A

I'd rather have a break. I don't mind if a decision is made to later bring them back. this kind of thing does not bother me it's totally ok, so it's ok with me.

I'm not convinced they make much difference. The clinical studies aren't conclusive.

It is not “masks” we are to wear here. It is face coverings. At the time they were made mandatory up here (Scotland) the FM basically said there was limited evidence they made any difference. But still went ahead anyway. Tokenism IMO. Just doing something for the sake of being seen to do something rather than because it actually makes any difference.

And yet people still bleat on about being put “at risk” as if a manky unwashed piece of cloth on someone’s face makes any bloody difference to man or beast

I bloody love masks, I'm going to be really sad when they go. I'll keep on wearing as long as possible.

What do you mean as long as possible? They’ll never be banned, you can wear them forever if you want.

I’d pick option C, get rid of them and don’t bring them back.

@Thisisconfusing We’re you worried about post viral syndrome pre-covid? It’s always been a thing, there’s always been the risk you might get it. I know people who have got it from flu and other viruses and now have long term complications and CFS.

I don't mind them in shops and other indoor spaces. I expect winter will see them back

Yes we need to learn to live with this but to those desperate to return to normal are you ok to accept you might be one of the unlucky ones in a lung clinic ( I know a 17yo) or with a heart issue ( friend spent Xmas in hospital due to heat condition bequeathed by Covid)

Yes, I am absolutely prepared to accept those tiny risks in order for life to return to normal, with the economy - which pays for the NHS and other essential services - functioning again.

If you feel these risks are too great, nothing stop you barricading yourself at home for as long as you wish. But society has to move on.

Yes we need to learn to live with this but to those desperate to return to normal are you ok to accept you might be one of the unlucky ones in a lung clinic ( I know a 17yo) or with a heart issue ( friend spent Xmas in hospital due to heat condition bequeathed by Covid)

Yes. 100% prepared to accept a tiny risk. Like we all have done forever before this particular virus came along.

As Iced says, if you aren't prepared to accept that risk then feel free to stay at home. Just don't expect to tell other people to do the same so that you can kid yourself you are "safe".