Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

[quote Tealightsandd]@IcedPurple
I've answered your question. More than once. You just don't like the answer. It's you that's evading the questions. You don't like the option I would have chosen. So what would your choice be? There's no good option, unless you have discovered the secret of how to magic Covid away.[/quote]
Really?

You've told us how the most sensitive border in Europe, which must remain open under international law, can be closed?

You've provided solutions to deal with any political fallout, especially in the light of the rioting in Belfast last week?

You've told us how you would cope with the fact that that border runs though people's gardens and that thousands cross it several times a day?

Are you sure?

So what is your solution Iced?

Something has to happen. The only option other than temporary restricted borders is more lockdowns, many more deaths and long covid cases, and ruined businesses.

We could work with ROI. They, like most places, already have some form of border restrictions - because they too need to deal with covid. They are as in need of border restrictions as we are. They too want to avoid more lockdowns, more deaths, and more damage to their economy.

You are insistent that the approach called for by many scientists, members of the Labour Party, and Nicola Sturgeon is wrong.

So you must prefer the only other approach. Which is mental and physical health impacts of lockdown, many deaths and long term illnesses, ruined businesses, and 5 year NHS backlog.

@Tealightsandd

I can't be certain of course but I'm reasonably confident the majority of the UK would prefer the border restrictions option. When the only alternative is what we're doing.

Which is demonstrably untrue. It’s not a binary choice.

We have screwed up many, many aspects of this. I personally think we should have had tighter border restrictions early, but that an Australian style closure with 100% hotel quarantine is impracticable for the UK for the reasons I’ve stated above.

BUT. We could have done a hell of a lot of things a hell of a lot better. Involved local public health teams in contact tracing. Having a functional testing regime sooner. Not encouraged people to go back to the office at the same time as schools reopened. Properly enforced self-isolation. Supported self-isolation for those who lose pay if they don’t go to work. Introduced legislation to outlaw sacking or reducing hours for those who miss work due to self-isolation, backed by swingeing fines for employers who tried it. Locked down in October sooner. Not continued the farce of Christmas bubbles.

It’s not ‘sealed borders but for air and maritime trade back in March’ or the situation we’ve got now. There were a score of shitty policy decisions between the two, and frankly those policy decisions mean that even if we’d closed the borders and enjoyed our turnips and cabbages (and I assume a lot of tinned food) we still wouldn’t be where Australia and New Zealand are now.

@Tealightsandd

So what is your solution Iced?

Something has to happen. The only option other than temporary restricted borders is more lockdowns, many more deaths and long covid cases, and ruined businesses.

We could work with ROI. They, like most places, already have some form of border restrictions - because they too need to deal with covid. They are as in need of border restrictions as we are. They too want to avoid more lockdowns, more deaths, and more damage to their economy.

You are insistent that the approach called for by many scientists, members of the Labour Party, and Nicola Sturgeon is wrong.

So you must prefer the only other approach. Which is mental and physical health impacts of lockdown, many deaths and long term illnesses, ruined businesses, and 5 year NHS backlog.

You're borderline (pun intended) trolling at this stage, aren't you?

Unless you can provide clear, practical solutions to the highly complex issue of the Irish border - and it is blindingly obvious that you can't - then nothing you write is of any value.

The ‘I’m sure we can work out something with Ireland about the border’ approach worked so well with Brexit, though.

I told you not to engage! Tealights is properly troll-like.

And re another wave. I think we should deal with it if it occurs. Right now there is zero evidence that the vaccines do not effectively protect against variants. Personally I would build additional nhs capacity (both to deal with acute illness and also long covid rehab pathways), vaccinate everyone and crack on with life.

Globalisation isn’t something that can be put back in a box - this isn’t the 1950s thank goodness!

So you don't have a better solution then Iced. It's safe to assume that you prefer lockdown, deaths, and ruined businesses. There's only two ways and you insist the other can't be done so...

A view you don't like is not trolling btw.
On how to handle covid, I'm with many of the scientists and Labour Party MPs (trolls, presumably in your eyes). You don't agree with their choice. So a difference in opinion.

You may not like my answers but at least I'm giving answers.

@Flyornofly

I told you not to engage! Tealights is properly troll-like.

And re another wave. I think we should deal with it if it occurs. Right now there is zero evidence that the vaccines do not effectively protect against variants. Personally I would build additional nhs capacity (both to deal with acute illness and also long covid rehab pathways), vaccinate everyone and crack on with life.

Globalisation isn’t something that can be put back in a box - this isn’t the 1950s thank goodness!

Yes, I should have listened to you!

There are a certain number of people on MN who have an irrational dislike of travel and this person is clearly one of them. As for the idea that the most complex border in Europe can be shut like a fridge door? Not much to be said, is there?

On how to handle covid, I'm with many of the scientists and Labour Party MPs (trolls, presumably in your eyes). You don't agree with their choice. So a difference in opinion.

I wasn’t aware that Starmer and Sturgeon were looking to stop or restrict RORO freight - can you share a source?

fly having an opinion (widely shared by many of the scientific experts and members of parliament) is 'troll like'?? Right you are.

Scientists don't yet know but they're definitely concerned about Indian and SA strains. Recent experience of the past year suggests caution might be wise.

But nevermind. You know better. We can immediately build extra NHS capacity to deal with all the extra deaths and long term illness. Magic up extra staff too.

You keep repeating there are only 2 choices. There clearly aren’t. Building more healthcare supply is clearly not instant but nor is it an impossible task or something that needs to be magicked up. To quote you - isn’t it better than more deaths?!

@marilenagrace

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

They have got it so so wrong & they’re also now struggling to vaccinate. India has already vaccinated 5 x as many people as the whole population of Australia

@Flyornofly
And re another wave. I think we should deal with it if it occurs. Right now there is zero evidence that the vaccines do not effectively protect against variants. Personally I would build additional nhs capacity (both to deal with acute illness and also long covid rehab pathways), vaccinate everyone and crack on with life.

My view and that of most people I know. I'm just enjoying our opening up for now, Covid has really thought me to enjoy life in the present. Our freedom at the moment has been hard won and I am loving every ba y class, every coffee date, every picnic and planning domestic travel. Who knows what the future holds and I'm okay with that for now. Same with those in NZ, Oz and everywhere I suppose.

A great post wawawawawa. I'm in NZ and we feel much the same way.

I highly doubt that. Almost all Australian celebrities leave the country as soon as they become internationally famous, so I doubt 'half of Hollywood' is rushing off to shut themselves into Australia in the middle of a pandemic.

Maybe 'half of Hollywood' is in Australia to work? Filming is going on in this part of the world, with international stars coming and going. Also, don't be so patronising. Many UK/US medical staff are coming down under to work and live - presumably to get away from the shitshow there, and other travellers who were here at the start of the pandemic are more than happy to stay while it's safe. It also might interest you to know that a lot of film stars/musicians etc do own property in Australia/NZ - presumably because they like the way of life here.

Maybe 'half of Hollywood' is in Australia to work? Filming is going on in this part of the world, with international stars coming and going.

Could you give examples? Who are all these Hollywood stars breezily 'coming and going' to and from an almost closed country duing a pandemic? Any names?

other travellers who were here at the start of the pandemic are more than happy to stay while it's safe

Again this 'safe' business. Do Australians really think the rest of the world is dangerous?

@eaglejulesk filming is going on here too. Recently walked past them filming the latest Marvel in London. I think Oz and NZ think the rest of the world has stopped in lockdown but it hasn't really and lots of places have re-opened up.

Yes I stumbled across a film set in the Home Counties the other day too.

Just seems to me Australia and New Zealand have painted themselves into a bit of a corner. Ok for the time being but long term, not so sure

Just seems to me Australia and New Zealand have painted themselves into a bit of a corner. Ok for the time being but long term, not so sure

‘Long term’?

Pandemics come and go. It isn’t going to be with us forever.

Yet another pointless thread comparing UK situation to Australia and NZ. Cue defensive posts.

It's comparing apples and oranges. Different countries, different land mass, different reliance on different places in the world, different travel patterns, different healthcare system, different everything.

SaturdayRocks is right.
Vaccine rollouts are happening. New treatments being discovered and developed.

I spoke to my family in Australia this evening. They obviously don't represent all Australians but they feel the same as wawawawawa and Eaglejulesk

They're happy to have the freedom they have without covid. They go out regularly for a meal or a drink, access doctor and hospital appointments as normal, schools open, and just generally living a normal covid-free life. They're also content to wait a few more months for their vaccine. They don't feel the same urgency as we do because they're virtually Covid free.

It's not just Australia and New Zealand btw. Lots of countries took the same approach, including South Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Vietnam, the Isle of Man, and Taiwan. Many African countries too.

In Australia, and very happy with our current COVID situation, unhappy with our hopeless government unable to manage the vaccination program.
However,I really wish the government would allow people to travel overseas for family reunion purposes, for people to see grandparents, new babies, parents. Seeing people on the news last night reuniting with loved ones n New Zealand on the first day our travel bubble began made me cry. 10,000 travelled yesterday.
Forget cruises and lying on a beach in Greece for a holiday, our population is from all over the world and I wish they could travel to see their loved ones, not forgetting those who are still stuck overseas unable to get a flight.

I think they are being naive and blinkered. Until they are all vaccinated, they are sitting target's. I feel for my loved ones over there. 💕

And just for the record, I’m in NZ. Life here is normal, and has been since May, a couple of short, sharp lockdowns in Auckland, aside.

Yes, our borders are currently closed (although the trans-Tasman bubble has just opened, and now there’s talk of opening with some Pacific Islands from May). But that’s not going to last forever because, as I say, pandemics come and go.

Other than the borders though, life has been normal for a long time.

I fully agree that the UK couldn’t have necessarily done what we, or Australia, has done. But that doesn’t make me any less grateful to live in a country that could eradicate it quickly, and return to normal life.

My brother, who’s lived in London for nearly 20 years, and his English partner are leaving for good this week to live here.

More than anything, the thing that I am most relieved about, is the limited impact this whole thing has had on our kids - their education and their wellbeing. 6 weeks of learning from home and being separated from their friends, and that was it.

As for our countries being diverse, I can’t speak for Australia. But our biggest city has more than 220 ethnic groups, speaking more than 150 languages. So reasonably diverse....

@IcedPurple

Maybe 'half of Hollywood' is in Australia to work? Filming is going on in this part of the world, with international stars coming and going.

Could you give examples? Who are all these Hollywood stars breezily 'coming and going' to and from an almost closed country duing a pandemic? Any names?

other travellers who were here at the start of the pandemic are more than happy to stay while it's safe

Again this 'safe' business. Do Australians really think the rest of the world is dangerous?

www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55851074.amp

A few examples here for you.

It really is atrocious that there are so many stranded Australians elsewhere in the world and film stars ( and sports people) can come here temporarily.

@MindfullWWer

I think they are being naive and blinkered. Until they are all vaccinated, they are sitting target's. I feel for my loved ones over there. 💕

‘Sitting targets’?

There is no community transmission.