Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

@newnortherner111

I think if we had been as strict about those entering the UK, regardless of how many fewer cases there would have been, I think that there would have been a greater adherance to restrictions generally. Government being seen to not pull their weight and things such as influencers going for 'work' to Dubai does not help.

I agree with you northerner. There was a point during the first lockdown where a bloke pulled out his own tooth with pliers because he couldn't access a dentist, yet there were still 20,000 people passing through Heathrow airport every day.

It's not as easy to "close" our borders here as other places, as mentioned zillions of times during this thread, but the balance of who was making what sacrifice was somewhat out of whack.

I hate to be the one to say it but I have the feeling that the outbreak in Melbourne is what is needed to get the vaccination programme moving at pace. People aren't motivated to get vaccinated as they don't feel at risk. I saw my DBro who is in Melbourne will get vaccinated shortly as they have reduced the age due to the outbreak. My DDad is in another state, 70 years old and still waiting for his appointment.

@Emsmaman I absolutely agree with you! We've seen such vaccination complacency in the 50+ range, that the limit has been dropped to 40+ and including more risk work groups (I work in commercial aviation and now in 1b).

The impact to Victorians is terrible, but thank goodness we're now seeing anger towards the Federal Governments absolute balls up of the roadmap out of COVID restrictions. With an upcoming Federal elections, we may actually see movement on a national roadmap and increased access to vaccines given their jobs are on the line #morrisonlockdown.

Vaccinations is where the UK is one of the leading nations in the world; I wish we could vaccinate even at a quarter of the speed.

@marilenagrace

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

Yes, here in europe we've had the v worst of both worlds, terrible death toll and economic cost.

Whether it would have been possible is another matter but we certainly could have suppressed CV far more than we did.

Looks like we are making the same mistakes again.

www.smh.com.au/national/clear-leadership-and-purpose-built-quarantine-crucial-to-beating-covid-20210528-p57w2k.html

So, it looks like Australia may be about to start building purpose-built quarantine facilities. I have to say that it does not look like they are expecting the borders to open any time soon.

Insanely, the authors of the article (Brendan Crabb and Mike Toole) appear to be under the impression that Australia will be able to maintain its two-weeks-quarantine while attracting foreign tourists.

"We are going to need quarantine facilities for quite some time given that the global burden of COVID-19 is too great to see a realistic end anytime soon. So purpose-built facilities that are safer and with substantially increased capacity provide Australia with a significant competitive advantage in economically important areas like foreign students, skilled migrants, seasonal workers and tourists. COVID zero has paid off handsomely for Australia but its best days may even be ahead. And the key to that is to ensure we protect our borders in a way that keeps the virus out but welcomes people in."

Yeah, I don't know about anyone else here, but when I'm planning a foreign holiday, I tend not to choose places that require me spend two weeks in a prison complex---while, presumably, paying for the privilege.

Totally agree User.

If this is a thing for the future, I can't go home to see my parents - I can't get the annual leave and nor can my husband and my kids can't get that much time off school.

I can speak to them on FaceTime and then when one of them eventually dies, I might be able to get compassionate leave for the funeral. But probably not. Compassionate leave doesn't tend to factor in quarantine.

If anyone has a lifelong burning desire to see Australia they might do it either as backpacker/gap year types or retired people. I can't see anyone else doing it on what is already a long slog expensive haul requiring, for value of money purposes, a longish stay.

I might be wrong but if I'm not, I guess they'll twig soon enough.

Interesting article from the BBC website about Australia's challenges with reopening

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57224635

It’s an interesting conundrum for the Aussies and kiwis policy makers too. I expect the government will eventually be happy to see more cases to pop up and implement harsh lock downs as that may be a major part in getting people to get vaccinated when they get fed up with this uncertainty and dacronian response. Maybe policy people need to pick a date and say we are opening our borders in March 2022 or whenever come what may. That may incentivise people although knowing human nature that could have the complete opposite effect as people on mass saying well no need to get my vaccine now, I’ll wait till Jan 2022.
I would be thinking exactly that in that position particularly as we don’t yet know how long the vaccines last for so why get a vaccine now when it might only last 12 months and you’ll have to do it again anyway.
It’s tricky from a making policy POV.

I have a feeling they may well pick a date Sasha - and it will be after the next federal election.

Interesting to see that the federal government have not offered jobseeker or money for this Melbourne lockdown - the Victorian government is having to foot the bill. If the feds keep it that way perhaps they will be slower to lockdown.

It will be very interesting to see what happens.

www.theage.com.au/national/qld-rejects-melbourne-couple-s-plea-for-early-quarantine-release-to-meet-newborn-20210607-p57yvj.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1623061390-1

A Melbourne couple, who are fully vaccinated and have negative tests have been prevented from seeing their newborn baby for a week after his emergency birth.

The baby was born by emergency CS at 30 weeks. A curtain hid the baby from the mother's line of vision, so she has never set eyes on him.

Both parents have tested negative to COVID-19 multiple times since the birth and have been battling Queensland bureaucracy for an exemption to leave their isolation rooms at the hospital and see their child.

I think COVID is threatening to become Australia's 9/11--an event which triggers a kind of hysterical monomania throughout society, where there is this overwhelming desire to reduce one particular risk to zero while ceasing to care about how many rights are trampled on along the way.

I'm starting to think the people who deny or refuse to admit Australia, New Zealand, East Asia, and parts of Africa got it right, secretly like the lack of normality.

Wasn't there a poll a while back suggesting quite a lot of people enjoyed lockdown.

Mostly it will be affluent people at a settled stage of life in roles currently WFH, who have spacious comfy homes (in which to WFH).

Nevermind the impact for the rest of the population - and on society as a whole.

It's devastating for the huge numbers of bereaved families. The loved ones of the 130,000 dead.

Pretty shit too for the employees who don't have the privilege of a decent WFH environment. Those stuck trying to work in tiny cramped overcrowded homes or the young people just starting out in a career now stuck in their childhood bedrooms.

Full time mass WFH has led to dreadful customer service. Significant lowering of standards, increasingly difficult to get hold of the right person, and having to give private details including financial to someone when you can hear their family noises in the background. It's shit.

WFH was a necessary temporary pandemic measure in high risk countries with uncontained Covid (like the UK) but it's no good for the long term.

Of course the supporters of the UK way - long repeated lockdowns, 130-150,000+ dead, wrecked businesses, and a damaged economy, care not for the growing number of long term disabled by Long Covid. The first hurdle many face is actually getting their symptoms acknowledged (which is one way to keep official figures down...).

Last but by no means least, there's the despicable contempt for the NHS staff.
We're already facing up to 5 year delays in treatment due to the backlog caused by failing to contain Covid. That wait will likely be longer once more exhausted and traumatised staff resign or burn out.

www.itv.com/news/2021-06-06/nhs-staff-broken-and-terrified-of-impact-of-june-21-easing-of-restrictions

Teaslight for the millionth time, give it a rest. No one is suggesting australia didn’t get it right in March 2020. They’re suggesting they’re not getting it right now. FYI most of my family & friends are absolutely up in arms about the government’s shambles - more lockdowns, everyone is wfh with mask restrictions and closed state borders etc with only 2% of the population vaccinated. Hopeless.

I'm still optimistic that after Lockdown 4, 5, or 6 people will be looking at NZ with envious eyes and demanding to know why we're not doing what they're doing.

Let's face it, we know what we're getting with the current government. They'll do some more stuff that makes things worse such as kick off the second wave with Eat Out To Help Out. Or kick off the third wave by removing masks in schools and hiding the extent of it from the public. Then they'll do too little too late which leads to another lockdown.

After 17 months, unimaginable death, a record NHS backlog, record economic carnage, huge disruption to our children's education and three lockdowns.

Anyone still supporting the government's strategy knows what they are getting.

New Zealand got it right for them - indeed they are in a different position to Australia

Australia got it right but I think are figuring out a way forward now

The UK has made a lot of mistakes but I dont think it would have been as simple as following Australia and New Zealand - local lockdowns for example I remember discussing here like Australia has done but tiers dont work because boundaries are all so close together

@PrincessNutNuts

I'm still optimistic that after Lockdown 4, 5, or 6 people will be looking at NZ with envious eyes and demanding to know why we're not doing what they're doing.

Let's face it, we know what we're getting with the current government. They'll do some more stuff that makes things worse such as kick off the second wave with Eat Out To Help Out. Or kick off the third wave by removing masks in schools and hiding the extent of it from the public. Then they'll do too little too late which leads to another lockdown.

After 17 months, unimaginable death, a record NHS backlog, record economic carnage, huge disruption to our children's education and three lockdowns.

Anyone still supporting the government's strategy knows what they are getting.

You embarrass yourself on a consistent basis when you compare the uk to those countries.

You clearly have 0 idea about international trade and economics if you think its a simple as copy Australia and new Zealand.

No @Chatterbox1987 , @Quartz2208 is absolutely spot on.
Yes, some positive cases might escape through the system through trade ground, and air freight etc, but with a decent track and trace, surge testing, we could contain small outbreaks linked to these freights. Unlike now, where we had the borders wide open with open arms to the delta variant and when we closed them it was too little too late.

Sorry I meant @PrincessNutNuts is correct

@VaccineSticker

No *@Chatterbox1987 , @Quartz2208* is absolutely spot on. Yes, some positive cases might escape through the system through trade ground, and air freight etc, but with a decent track and trace, surge testing, we could contain small outbreaks linked to these freights. Unlike now, where we had the borders wide open with open arms to the delta variant and when we closed them it was too little too late.

Yes but the issue is our country potentially had thousands of cases before we even knew about it. It's more simple if the country is covid free and one or 2 slip in, but we have had thousands of cases detected and undecided since the beginning of this pandemic.

fly
Just goes to show how varied anedotes can be. My friends and family are super grateful, content, and happy. Life largely mormal. Shops, bars, restaurants, offices, events. All open. Schools undisrupted too.

40 something in Aus had their first (Pfizer) jab a couple of weeks ago. The other 40 something has just booked their appointment. Older family in NZ waiting a little longer (for vaccines) but they're ok with that because they're in no urgent rush. Life is as normal for them.

PrincessNutNuts is completely right.

And again. It's not just Australia and New Zealand that took the very obvious measures to limit the damage of a pandemic. The most basic infection control is isolation and containment. Don't let virus in, and don't let the small number of cases (that leak in) spread.

East Asia and many African countries also put in place pandemic border control. Still with essential travel.

France is currently restricting entry from high risk countries like the UK. The essential goods lorries are of course still importing and exporting.

Vietnam is an excellent example of the stark difference between the UK approach of ongoing misery versus pandemic border control.

UK - 150,000 dead and counting, long repeated lockdowns, many suffering long term illness of Long Covid including heart, lung, and kidney damage and development of diabetes. AND badly damaged economy. Because wealth is health.

Vietnam. Truly essential travel only with two quarantine. Around 50 deaths in total since the start in 2020.

Yes but the issue is our country potentially had thousands of cases before we even knew about it. It's more simple if the country is covid free and one or 2 slip in, but we have had thousands of cases detected and undecided since the beginning of this pandemic.

Other countries had cases rising at the start. The difference between them and us is common sense, brains, morals, and foresight.

They didn't throw their hands up in the air and go oh well nothing to do so let's have millions of untested, untracked, and non quarantined in, to spread and keep on spreading.

No. The sensible countries took swift tough action to first get the numbers down, and then stop them going up again.

We let it keep spreading. And actually then in the end we did get the number's down. Several times - last summer, earlier this year. But each time we decided to fuck it up. Boris chose to import the Delta strain just when we actually were getting somewhere - and then he allowed it to freely spread.

So here we are. Facing a third wave. More lockdowns loom, more avoidable untimely (and unpleasant) deaths, further damage to the economy - AND even more people of all ages including the young being condemned to long term illness. Long Covid - with the potential organ damage and triggering of diabetes (including in some children) is going to leave us with a costly burden. Both health and economy wise.

Now the UK is the high risk country that others, including America, France, and Germany need to restrict entry from.

Re Vietnam. I meant to type real* (not two) quarantine.

The main issue now is, although we can't go back, we can learn lessons and do it right from now onwards. We can't repair the devastating harm already done, but we could (if we wanted) mitigate against further damage.

Unfortunately it seems the UK is still continuing to make the same mistakes, time and time again. We keep letting new horses bolt - importing new strains, and allowing them to spread. Until we have the majority of the population fully vaccinated, we need to strictly monitor the stable doors - because the original horse has a lot of cousins. We need to stop fucking up basically.

Long term I don’t think so no.

In the short term probably.

At some point the world does have to open up

I think Aus (my home country...) did very well with phase 1 of the pandemic. I am really worried about phase 2 and when I will ever get the chance to see my family again. This is an interesting article:
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/13/vaccine-hesitancy-and-variants-mean-australia-may-not-reach-covid-herd-immunity-researchers

@namechange34 I agree, I'm very concerned how we're going to move away from "covid 0" as vaccination rates increase. I can only hope with the digital vaccination passport launching, that the Fed Government is actually planning out what the next phases will look like.

For those in the UK, how badly is the delta variant impacting you? Sounds in the media as a step back? Anyone in the US, with rules dropping (masks, social distancing, etc) any fears what will happen when the delta variant reaches you?