Who thinks Australia and NZ have got it right ?

[marilenagrace]

What do you think ? Do you think that keeping everyone out of the country is the right approach long term to deal with covid ? Do you wish we did that here in the UK ?

@lljkk I have said this on lots of the Australia threads. It's a new normal.
Our lives look more normal than a lot of countries but it's still a fair way from pre covid (Sydney, NSW).
It also depends what state you are in.
We are hopefully flying to NZ soon and will be required to wear masks in the airport and on the plane.
When I use the trains there is probably 3/10 with masks (which are still recommended but not mandatory).
Most people I know carry one with them or have a stash at home for when/if restrictions change or there's an uncomfortable situation.
DH's work still has limits on numbers allowed in the office. My office has only just had its first full day with everyone since last year and that is only 2days per week.
Our bars and restaurants are open but only just in the last few weeks are we allowed to stand up and move around, and the operators still have (more relaxed) covid safe limits on numbers/proximity.
We have a work conference coming up and I've re-routed everything so no one flies into a cbd but goes via regional places to avoid potential quarantine. And some from qld will drive so if there is even a hint of an outbreak they can jump in the car and go before the border shuts.
So normal? Mostly. But we have adapted and found work arounds for a lot of things.

I don’t really understand why there are still so many covid restrictions either. Why do you need masks or social distancing in offices with zero community transmission?

The threat of prison for going on past NZ is predictable. Given the government is doing exactly diddly squat to help citizens get home I don’t know why they even care so much.

It sounds like NSW is less normal than some of the other states (although still much more normal than the UK). My family are in SA and WA, where things have been very normal for many months including fully open offices.

Great article in today’s Age/SMH

www.theage.com.au/national/why-mps-are-unwilling-to-do-more-for-australians-trapped-by-covid-travel-bans-20210419-p57kkm.html

SA and WA were not as badly affected as some of the other states, so their restrictions eased quicker.

WA shut its borders with everyone quite quickly and were the last to lift it. They were overly strict, I read stories of people driving(as relocating) with cross border exemptions only to be turned away by the police at the border check.

I’m I SA, masks have never been mandatory everywhere( a few weeks mandatory for attending healthcare settings) and mandatory for events at over 75% capacity.

I was at the footy at the weekend. I had to wear a mask whilst walking around the oval, but could take it off once seated.

@MoppaSprings but why do you need to wear a mask walking around? I genuinely don’t get it! It just seems utterly bizarre to me.

I've a friend who is an expat in Singapore.
Singapore has taken a similar approach to Australia and NZ. As a result life is pretty much normal there except foreign travel.
My friend is missing famy etc based in UK and not having an end date for international travel is very hard fir her and she admits it can affect her mood someday but she also acknowledges she's living a full life unlike us and has been fir mist of the past year. I thinkbthey did have a l9ckdiwn but it ended months and months ago.

I regularly see her post girls nights out in bars, meals out with friends, beauty treatments, massages, days out with groups of friends, coffee shops with friends, shopping etc

I'd rather have all that with no travel right now. I say that as cabin crew who has lost my job and adored every single moment of my job and the travel opportunities it gave me. I don't think in 16 years I've ever spent so long on the ground or in one country. But basic freedoms to socialise etc is a good trade off fir now.

If I could get to Singapore today and live her life, I'd happily do so because here in the UK we've git a few months of freedom ahead of us but that will samosa certainly be followed by anther wave and I cannot see how we will avoid yet another lockdiwn of sorts or how our poor exhausted NHS staff will cope with anymore.

@Flyornofly. I suppose you are sitting outside, but walking around in enclosed spaces. It doesn’t make much sense to me either, but they give you a mask if you forget one so it doesn’t make too much difference.

In SA their outbreak in November happened just after they had their Christmas pageant at the oval. I’m sure there was a lot of headaches trying to find out if anyone there had been close to any positive cases.
The optics of them hosting a super spreader event would have been terrible.
I suppose that’s another reason for the over caution

So these poor people suffering debilitating conditions are liars, accordingly to you.

No. Nobody said that. They DID make the point that the definers being used for long COVID are so vague that they will be causing the figures to be massively inflated by the worried well and by people who are just having difficult recoveries.

I think very few people would deny that there are cases of serious post-viral issues in small numbers of former patients. But as a previous poster said, it is just not helpful to act as though we are talking about huge numbers of people who have been long-term incapacitated. It's also not helpful to fly off the handle and shout "HOWDAREYOUACCUSEPEOPLEOFBEINGLIARS" every time someone tries to have a balanced and sensitive conversation about this.

@Tealightsandd NSW takes the majority of international arrivals so the risk is a little bit higher.
Gladys goes for an approach of constant caution at a low and manageable level so that any outbreak is limited in terms of potential spread and easily traceable

That all makes a lot of sense spotty

In NZ, under COVID Alert Level 1, we do have to wear masks on public transport and planes, even though there is no community transmission. It’s a precaution.

Auckland carries the greatest risk of transmission occurring, since this is where international flights come into, and therefore where border workers and most quarantine facilities are.

The idea is essentially that we all wear masks on public transport across the country in solidarity with Auckland.

The vast majority of people don’t wear masks in other enclosed spaces, e.g. shops, bars and restaurants.

Wearing masks on transport is, as a PP said, the new ‘normal’ in a post- COVID world.

“The idea is essentially that we all wear masks on public transport across the country in solidarity with Auckland.”

This ^^ is quite an odd concept

I mean, I don’t mind masks and don’t get frothy about wearing them the way some do, but it does seem a bit pointless in a zero covid country. I mean, masks protect you from speading covid, not getting it!

I think a lot of the rules here, as in other countries are based on catering to the lowest common denominator.
Not everyone will have the critical thinking skills or understanding to make an appropriate decision when there is a risk to others so, for example, it's masks for all on public transport rather than masks for these categories of workers, their close contacts, people who travel on routes xyz etc. Much easier to get the message out and limit dodgy exceptions.
From an outside perspective the rules NDA their various exceptions, exemptions in the different parts of the UK have looked very confusing and resulted in lots of posts on mn as to the correct interpretation. I think ours have been a bit clearer and easier to understand. But they are different places with different circumstances.

*and

Just because its a zero covid country doesn't mean we haven't had community transmission events.... most people understand we are in the midst of a global pandemic and there are some considerations to be made to resume a close to normal life, go to school, attend events, keep medical services like elective surgeries going .
most events are ticketed so the state health authorities have an idea of who sits where and if there is a covid outbreak and someone who has attended the event was in a particular section of the stadium, then that area can be tracked and traced for testing. the idea is to wear masks around the stadium and on entry and exit to reduce the chance of transmission. its part of the covid response. similiarly wearing masks in airports and on planes - purely to reduce the likelihood of transmission (I'm not getting into the argument regarding the effectiveness of masks....). its a risk mitigation strategy.

Covid cases from returned travellers have increased in the past few months. these people still have (minimal) contact with others. so the masks are - like suggested - worn in high density environments to reduce spread on the very unlikely chance someone has it.

although they should be mandatory in Bunnings. every close contact list always mentions a bunnings lol. must be the lure of the hot tradies and the snags in bread.

From an outside perspective the rules NDA their various exceptions, exemptions in the different parts of the UK have looked very confusing and resulted in lots of posts on mn as to the correct interpretation. I think ours have been a bit clearer and easier to understand. But they are different places with different circumstances.

This ^^

Our communications (and the decision-making that underpin them) have been consistently clear and simple.

It has made a big difference to compliance, and therefore outcomes.

If an MIQ worker contracts COVID from a returnee, the best way of limiting transmission to the wider community, is to wear a mask home on the bus after work.

And to simplify it, let’s just get everyone to do that, given it’s not too onerous a request, and people can understand the rationale behind it.

The idea is essentially that we all wear masks on public transport across the country in solidarity with Auckland.

It's not that we are wearing masks on public transport in solidarity with Auckland, more that someone on the bus/train/plane who could have come from Auckland bringing the virus with them.

we went to a parade on the weekend! a parade in the middle of a global pandemic, (in a state with no community transmission at present) its just bonkers to think about really. covid marshalls rode bikes up and down the route with QR codes on signs so people could 'scan in'. We went to a community airshow the weekend before. again just had to sign in with the QR, cleaning of bathrooms was military operation, paths one way, seating in bays of 300 people only, socially distanced. New regulations we just live with, because we can just get on with day to day.

Its such a weird experience, knowing we are in a global pandemic but still are able to do these things.

I'm in Perth, WA, and our internal border restrictions have certainly been the strictest, our Premier has withstood a lot of pressure to open up earlier, but since last May we have been living almost completely normally and the economy has held up well (Perth is in fact booming). I was at an AFL match last week, 55,000 people there, and now interstate and NZ travel has opened up that side is a lot more positive.

I've a good friend who is high up in the Department of Communities, and she was involved in a number of the discussions last year when strategies were being looked at by the state government, and the potential impact on our indigenous communities, particularly those living up in Kimberley region was a real concern, and did drive some of those decisions. I'd have to say as well, our hospitals would not have coped with any kind of influx of patients, and being so remote we'd have been in real trouble, so I really don't feel like they had much choice.

I've not seen my parents since 2019, and as my brother also lives here, it's definitely impacting them, so I'm not unsympathetic to others missing family, but I really don't see what could have been done differently here. The Federal vaccine roll out though, is a shit show, and we were lucky the States had control of their borders, if left to Sco Mo things would have been hugely different.

Yes the clear comms point is a good one.

Just curious that people outside eg Dunedin are wearing masks in case someone coughs in Auckland! I personally think that’s OTT but as you say maybe it’s a signalling thing to everyone that they shouldn’t expect life to be normal.

Det I agree with you that Aus did exactly the right thing shutting the borders last year. I guess the more interesting question is what’s right looking forward - completely bungling the vaccine programme and failing to expand/make fit for purpose hotel quarantine seem two pretty big missteps to me & it’s totally unclear what the plan is on either

So iom announced new border strategy yesterday.

Summary is - no social distancing,masks or restrictions on gatherings. Everything is open like pubs, theatres etc.

From 1st May anyone can visit from UK. Test on arrival, quarantine, test day 7. If both tests clear you are free to do as you wish.

From 1st June anyone can visit from UK. Test on arrival and quarantine until results (same or next day) if clear you are free. Another test on day 7 and if positive you would be isolated.

From 1st July. Free travel no isolation.

Basically the same as the Channel Islands but a couple of weeks behind.

I would imagine NZ and Aus will be watching

I regularly see her post girls nights out in bars, meals out with friends, beauty treatments, massages, days out with groups of friends, coffee shops with friends, shopping etc

Yeah, I can do all those things where I am in the US. I don't know why people act like Australia, NZ and a few other countries are the only "normal" places. Having tens of thousands of citizens stuck abroad, and stopping people seeing their loved ones for potentially years on end , and now the threat of jail for leaving their own country...well its far from normal isn't it? Zero covid/Their approach is not sustainable and they dont seem to have an exit plan, so good luck with that.

also i think important to consider that yes, whilst the current vaccination rates and issues are not desirable, vaccinations are still happening! my 90+ year old grandmother is getting her first dose in the next week. this is thru her gp clinic. considering this is in a country that did not hasten the oversight process (ie declare it emergency measures), im pretty pleased. mass vax centres are being implemented now. i think the state govts doing pretty good in a unusual time. id personally roll up my sleeve for the AZ but will have to wait for Pfizer now (under 50 not essential worker).
slow and steady seems to be a process lots of us (even with loved ones abroad) are willing to accept, if it means avoiding preventable deaths and injury.

But what was the alternative for Aus? Unless we wanted to see our Indigenous communities likely devastated, there wasn't one. My parents haven't been able to see my other brother who's still in UK either due to their lockdowns and restrictions, so we're not worse off being here (for now).