Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Boringlynormal]

How have we gone - in the past 10 days - from:

5 cases - all men
To
30 cases, 7 deaths
To
79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women.

What the hell is going on?!

Yes I know it’s still low compared to overall number than have had the vaccine but that’s not reassuring when they don’t seem to have had a clue about the numbers and let us all continue getting the vaccine with no warning even when Europe was sounding huge alarm bells.

I’m 12 days post AZ, mid 30s and very upset.

Does anyone know why they said only healthy under 30s shouldn't have AZ?

So it's ok for less healthy then???

@turtlewurtle

One who got Pfizer died of brain bleed short afterwards. Any stories of Moderna yet?

Yes, there are articles in the US press about very, very small numbers of people suffering ITP after the Pfizer and the Moderna (in the same tiny numbers as AZ and not proved a causation), the first one that hit a lot of papers was about a doctor from Miami in January. I don't know why only the AZ is being focussed on only. Is someone somewhere trying to dampen down demand for it?

Meanwhile OP, try to not focus on your fears, the symptoms are obvious and acute and you don't have them from your description, but the more you worry about it the worse you will feel.

But I’m pissed off that this leaves me less protected because I tried to do the right thing and trusted

How are you less protected than before? You've had the 70% less likely to get covid or higher protection already.

You aren't less protected if you refuse the second vaccine.

There was no alternative vaccine to have given you, Pfizer was needed for second dose for really high risk people (over 70's) so it was AZ or nothing. You had AZ, you benefitted from it.

Your risk today isn't higher than it was before, and if you choose to do nothing further, no other vaccine, you are still more protected.

Alternatives for people in their 30's even CV will be a few months away, in which your risk of Covid is still higher than your risk from AZ (as first two weeks are the risk window for clotting problems).

The over-drama about this is ridiculous- no-one is making you have another vaccine, just informing you of the risks of going forward vs the risks of having covid.

The risks of blood clot from the contraceptive pill are around 0.3% - far higher.

From pregnancy higher still.

It's unethical to advise patients about risk based upon risks of crossing the road/pregnancy etc. We don't cross the road or have a baby at the behest of the state for an unspecified and incalculable benefit to the wider population which is the reason that many of us will be encouraged to have the vaccine.

But relative risk is irrelevant when alternatives can be administered.

@YogaLite

Does anyone know why they said only healthy under 30s shouldn't have AZ? So it's ok for less healthy then???

The UK hasn't got enough vaccine supply to give to everyone. Under 30s with underlying conditions are at increased risk from covid and so included in priority groups. With limited supply, the healthy under 30s weren't going to get a vaccine yet regardless of an extremely rare side effect.

@Gwenhwyfar

"I recently had a full body scan and the radiographer said I have a very healthy heart, liver, kidneys etc. Not fatty, not damaged, she said she’d expect to see organs like that in a person in their twenties."

How did you get a full body scan being so healthy?

I went in because I asked my GP for a check up on my PCOS as I’m considering trying for another baby soon. My friend was the radiographer, she did the external scan on my ovaries and then asked if I wanted to look at anything else, and I did!

No evidence of PCOS either apparently, so it looks as though I’ve been either labouring under a misdiagnosis for a decade, or it’s just gone away. I don’t know if that’s possible...

OP what do you do for a living? I assume you’re offered the vaccination so young due to your job.

I am 30 and relatively healthy but chose to have the vaccination as I am a single parent and work with children/teens and I am hearing more and more information about an inflammatory disease that effects children after they’ve have covid and this made any anxiety I had go away as I knew I was doing the right thing.

The vaccine doesn't only protect you. It's needed to protect everyone

That's not an argument I'm afraid - you cannot expect people to put something in their bodies that they are scared will harm them.

Governments don't care about individual deaths - they only worry about population level so at a national level the vaccination totally makes sense, it will save far more lives than it will take. But of course you worry very much about yourself. I am more worried about getting long covid than I am about dying of this rare blood clot so I will have the vaccine when it is offered to me, whatever one it is. But I am having it for my benefit. People can do what they want.

I was sceptical that we'd get a vaccine so quickly for this, never mind several. I knew we had coronavirus vaccines for animals, but made the point at the time that it didn't matter too much if animals died, it was more of a economic argument. Well it does matter if humans die, but I think you just have to take the tiny chance and hope it's not you.

I wonder how many of you would still be saying take the vaccine if one of those 19 dead was your child, sister, mother, brother etc.

@abricotine

Totally agree *@Everythingfromhome* I wonder - did everyone read the Pill risks and side effects leaflet back to front and anguish about it similarly? And yet the risks of blood clotting with that are far higher.

They're common knowledge though and the Pill is completely optional.

this is what happens when you rush into things.

And what happens when you don't "rush into things"? In this particular case - MORE people catch Covid and MORE people get seriously ill/die than would do if every single person in the country was vaccinated with AZ, and we have to choose between keeping Covid restrictions going even longer, with the concomitant effects on mental health, education, the economy etc, OR letting the virus rip among the unvaccinated, with the aforementioned illness and death and still having massive impact on economy and mental health.

No-one (sensible) every said there was no risk from taking the vaccine. What they've said - and what they are still saying, very loudly - is that the risk from taking the vaccine is significantly less than the risk from catching Covid. Only in the case of younger adults, and when circulating rates of Covid are very low (lower than they currently are), do the risks start to become comparable. Hence why that group will be offered an alternative.

@AbsentmindedWoman

Some people suffer serious harm and death from childbirth. Should women think, no better not take the risk?

Check your stonking great privilege, you clueless sheltered idiot.

Risk of serious harm and death in pregnancy (or dying in childbirth and leaving my newborn) is EXACTLY why I cannot have a child of my own.

Plenty of women like me exist.

I developed pre-eclampsia in my one and only pregnancy. Is that good enough for you!

cassgate
Yes I did listen to the press conference thanks. I listened to the one a couple of weeks ago when they said there was no link and, as the OP quoted, apparently only 9 cases. Now there are 79. I doubt they happened in a week so perhaps the answer is they actually don’t know yet. Do you think today’s facts and figures are the definitive answer?
This week, the facts are there ‘may be’ a link but they need more data. No other country has vaccinated as many people as the U.K. with AZ and so they have actually no idea how much at risk younger females are from this vaccine yet? Because no one has vaccinated that younger group in significant numbers. But they are halting trials in children and now advising caution with under 30s.
You may well be happy with the risk benefit profile presented today as an individual but I am not. My personal risk of dying of Covid is very low ... I’m in the 40 - 50 group but I also have none of the risk factors so that makes my risk lower than that of the group which would include those with risk factors. I can also influence the factors to lower my risk of catching it .... masks, social distance, twice weekly testing for myself and only meeting others who are also able/willing to test and meeting them outside. So I’ll pass on the vaccine for the moment thanks until the data is more known. If the data remains as it is now then I’ll probably decide to have it on balance but anyone who takes today’s information as definitive or conclusive is quite frankly deluding themselves and others.

The JCVI have done the right thing - they have made available the most current data and contextualised it on the basis of relative risks.

They are offering an alternative for those Under 30s where the relative risk balance is less in favour of the AZ vaccine.

People are getting stroppy because they want to be categorically told "Take this - it is 100% safe" but nothing in medicine is ever 100% safe.

Maybe you’re the idiot as those who’ve had children already can still be at risk of serious complications and death in pregnancy and birth.

@toocold54 You're an insensitive piece of shit.

I can't have a safe pregnancy so will never have a child. It's a cheap shot to dismiss women like me, as if we don't exist, when trying to draw some nonsensical parallel between risks of childbirth and vaccine risk to try to shame younger women for being concerned about the AZ vaccine in light of the developing situation with it.

Please stop talking sense @PuzzledObserver!

"No-one (sensible) every said there was no risk from taking the vaccine. What they've said - and what they are still saying, very loudly - is that the risk from taking the vaccine is significantly less than the risk from catching Covid."

I don't remember hearing that at all. I only remember 'the vaccine is safe' and complete contempt for anyone who was concerned.

@Tealightsandd, thank u.

I'm 36 and in a priority group, booked for my second vaccine (AZ) and will be having it
My chances if I get covid are pretty crap and the risk is a clot compared to that is tiny in comparison

@YogaLite

Does anyone know why they said only healthy under 30s shouldn't have AZ? So it's ok for less healthy then???

Presumably because if you're less healthy, you may be more at risk of serious Covid so the risk-benefit assessment is different for you.

@YogaLite

Does anyone know why they said only healthy under 30s shouldn't have AZ? So it's ok for less healthy then???

It's about relative risk from Covid, which depends on medical conditions as well as age. The higher your risk of a bad outcome from Covid, the more you benefit from having the vaccine.

For healthy under 30's when circulating Covid levels are low, the risk from having the vaccine appears to approach the risk from Covid if they don't have the vaccine. For under 30's with health conditions the risk from Covid is higher, so although the risk from the vaccine is the same, the advantage in having the vaccine is clearer.

@abricotine

Totally agree *@Everythingfromhome* I wonder - did everyone read the Pill risks and side effects leaflet back to front and anguish about it similarly? And yet the risks of blood clotting with that are far higher.

I’ve had horrific side effects with medication including the very, very rare stuff so yea I read before I take anything. When meds are changed or need new ones my go and consults give me as much info as they can so I can make an informed choice because of some of the horrific side effects.

I’ve never taken the pill as I was medically advised against it.

Sometimes mistakes are made and it’s going through things that gp’s have then spotted something that is a contra to other illnesses and meds I take and looked at safer alternatives instead including at times, holding off prescribing anything until they have got advice from my consultants and other colleagues.

I’m not sure why anyone open up meds and just starts taking them.

When I had my eldest, had I not known how to spot an allergic reaction he had to penicillin after reading the leaflet I don’t think he would have gotten better.

But then I started my life on meds way before the web days.

I still don't understand why the ban is only for under 30s.. I appreciate that they deem the risks outweigh the benefits (or it's a fine line), but they're saying they will be offered an alternative vaccine...

If it's so unsafe for under 30s that they're banning it, then surely it's unsafe for the rest?