MHRA may change advice for young people receiving AZ vaccine

[IloveSooty424]

I just saw this news story on Channel 4 news tonight.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

It seems the MHRA may follow other European countries and Canada and advise that younger people should not receive the AZ vaccine. It seems the decision will be made imminently in the coming days.

I’m due to book my vaccine this week and don’t know whether to wait and see how this plays out. I’m 42. I’m also concerned that if younger people will only be offered the Pfizer vaccine it will slow down the vaccine programme substantially.

Any thoughts?

The same abnormal clotting is being seen with covid. Way more people under 50 have died from covid than from the extremely rare vaccine side effect - and not everyone with the clotting has died. Lots of under 50s have been ill from covid but not died.

There's another risk from covid to under 50s other than death. Women under 55 are the biggest risk group for long covid.

I'm 36 but choosing not to get it. None of my friends are choosing to have it either. Except for two of them who are extremely asthmatic

DD is due to have it on Friday, she's 18 and had covid a few months ago, the only symptom being loss of taste and smell for a couple of days. We normally have vaccines and I haven't said much to her, and I know it's rare but it's difficult not to think "what if...". I think there is an ethical issue about giving her (and other people) something potentially harmful when there is not likely to be any direct benefit to her. I'll be keeping an eye out over the next couple of days!

www.hriuk.org/health/your-health/lifestyle/people-with-coronavirus-are-at-risk-of-blood-clots-and-strokes

However, higher rates of strokes in patients with COVID-19 is somewhat unusual because it also seems to be happening in people under 50 years of age, with no other risk factors for stroke.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine/oxford-pauses-dosing-in-trial-of-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-in-children-teenagers-wsj-idUSKBN2BT2GY

AZ have paused their trial in children

@fallfallfall

Under 65, 60, 50, 30 who the hell wants a stroke? I’m 63, healthy as can be. Not wanting a clot anywhere. I’m saying no to AZ at this point. Ideally I’d like to wait for the J&J one dose option.

J&J also uses an adenovirus viral vector so we’ll soon know if there are the same issues here also.

@wasthataburp

I'm 36 but choosing not to get it. None of my friends are choosing to have it either. Except for two of them who are extremely asthmatic

My personal take is that the dangers of CV far far out weigh the tiny risk from a vaccination like AZ. Have a look at what is happening in Brazil, with little vaccinations?

We choose not to suppress CV, so vaccination is the only way out.

My personal take is that the dangers of CV far far out weigh the tiny risk from a vaccination like AZ

That may be true at a societal level but not necessarily an individual one, e.g. for a young person who already has had covid and has antibodies, or someone with natural immunity.

@Boringlynormal

There have been 22 reports of this with AZ, 8 other cases of an unusual combination of clotting and low platelets with AZ and NONE with Pfizer

Yes, there have been reports of immune thrombocytopenia in the US with low platelets count. But this doesn't reach the European (or UK media)

www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/health/immune-thrombocytopenia-covid-vaccine-blood.html

This isn’t the same condition. What’s unusual about the condition being reported after AZ is the odd combination of these low platelets plus multiple clots.

No, it isn’t the same condition, though there are similarities. It can still be a pretty serious one though.

Thrombocytopenia following Pfizer and Moderna SARS‐CoV‐2 vaccination
doi.org/10.1002/ajh.26132

No idea how many Pfizer vaccinations have been given in the UK but I would imagine considerably fewer than the USA, so it would be logical that more events would be picked up there than here.

@gingermcwhinger

It just doesn't make sense to me, considering the stats. There have been 17m vaccines given and the incidence of clots is in low double figures. I'm not a statistician but surely the has to show that on balance it's safe for the vast vast majority who take it?

The risk is with younger women. Only a small percentage of those vaccinated have been younger women so the stats you are giving are meaningless

according to the guardian MHRA might give an statement later today

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-56602894

A young and super healthy woman, who had Covid, but not hospitalised (although you can argue she probably should have been), and still suffers from the effects of long Covid. The red flag being, after many tests, they found blood clots on her lungs and she is now on anti-coagulants.

Last May? Way before all the now known symptoms were known.

She must be realy pissed off, that must have been quite terrifying. I had a glandular fever precursor, have now had ME/CFS for 40 ish years. It is fucking awful!

I fear those for those of us below x Aage that are waiting for our second dose... I'd rather it being AZ tbh than any other

I'm 39 and had my my first AZ in early March, will definitely get the second. Interestingly the German Vaccines minister was on radio 4 last night and he said if AZ was the only vaccine available they would be recommending it for all adults because because risk of clots is still so small. He said they have not proven a link between the AZ and blood clots but as they have other vaccines in the country it made sense to use them.

Also, although blood clots are worrying, when I asked a GP friend he said these are not usually the type of blood clots you just drop dead from. You get a headache, which is painful and persistent for days, blurred vision and nausea. If you get blood thinners your chance of survival is excellent, most people have a stay in hospital with a course of blood thining injections then are on blood thining tablets for a few months afterwards. Obviously not great but survivable and most people have no long term complications. For me it is worth the risk. The other thing they said on R4 is that at least 3 other vaccines are made in the same/similar way so if there is a link they may have the same issue.

I agree with people saying wait to see what the MHRA or EMA says and go with that.

Also at least 5 of our cases have been in men so it doesn't look like here it's exclusively young women.

EMA and MHRA statement at 3pm, seems like MHRAA's will be in tv according to Hugo
twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1379759718726504451

Thanks @EasterIssland

MHRA and EMa making statements at the same time.

Book is open:

1. They have collaborated, will say pretty much the same thing

1. They will wildly contradict each other

My bet is on 1. It would be weird if they hadn't collaborated, as they used to.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

MHRA and EMa making statements at the same time.

Book is open:

1. They have collaborated, will say pretty much the same thing

1. They will wildly contradict each other

My bet is on 1. It would be weird if they hadn't collaborated, as they used to.

1 as well, if uk says safe, ema says unsafe, British people won't have confidence on it. Also concerned about what age, as that's where I saw discrepancies.

Hope tho they both say safe, in spain every death that has been accused to AZ has lately been ruled out

I've been trying to keep up with all the cases and remain perplexed.

I get that other countries aren't as vaccine positive/familiar as we are and know that will have quite an effect.

But am lost as to how all of this blew up as it did.

Chances are that there IS a link. But that doesn't explain the catalogue of anti AZ behaviours we have seen.

If/when they confrim a causal link they will also explain the RR of it for age, sex and underlying health conditions. But I have severe doubts that that will be enough to do anything to counteract the horrendous misinformation that has been plastered across all media platforms. most of which makes Bill Gates and his bloody chips sound eminently feasible!

What then? And will any of the Monster Shouters apologise?

@Loopylou555

I'm 39 and had my my first AZ in early March, will definitely get the second. Interestingly the German Vaccines minister was on radio 4 last night and he said if AZ was the only vaccine available they would be recommending it for all adults because because risk of clots is still so small. He said they have not proven a link between the AZ and blood clots but as they have other vaccines in the country it made sense to use them.

Also, although blood clots are worrying, when I asked a GP friend he said these are not usually the type of blood clots you just drop dead from. You get a headache, which is painful and persistent for days, blurred vision and nausea. If you get blood thinners your chance of survival is excellent, most people have a stay in hospital with a course of blood thining injections then are on blood thining tablets for a few months afterwards. Obviously not great but survivable and most people have no long term complications. For me it is worth the risk. The other thing they said on R4 is that at least 3 other vaccines are made in the same/similar way so if there is a link they may have the same issue.

I agree with people saying wait to see what the MHRA or EMA says and go with that.

Also at least 5 of our cases have been in men so it doesn't look like here it's exclusively young women.

I had a headache and blurred vision after my first vaccine, I’m 57, I just thought I had a weird migraine. Now I’m worried for my second one.

I've had both jabs, both AZ. I'm 61 with auto immune disease which is very well controlled and stable but it's still there. I'm fine

EMA - vaccine benefits outweigh issues...

Reported cases of unusual blood clotting should be listed as possible side effects.

Specific risk factors have not been able to be confirmed as it has been seen in all ages, men and women.

Details about heparin induced xxxxx to follow ( sorry can't spell it)

Yes- and patients must be made aware of possible side effects. They say that “unusual blood clots should be listed as very rare side effects”

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/apr/07/uk-covid-live-news-mhra-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus-latest-updates