MHRA may change advice for young people receiving AZ vaccine

[IloveSooty424]

I just saw this news story on Channel 4 news tonight.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

It seems the MHRA may follow other European countries and Canada and advise that younger people should not receive the AZ vaccine. It seems the decision will be made imminently in the coming days.

I’m due to book my vaccine this week and don’t know whether to wait and see how this plays out. I’m 42. I’m also concerned that if younger people will only be offered the Pfizer vaccine it will slow down the vaccine programme substantially.

Any thoughts?

@BuggerBognor your aware az is cheap as not for profit ? So of course it will be cheaper than others as no profit is included

@BuggerBognor do you also realise the other vaccines are not risk free as well ?

@BuggerBognor you also haven't answered as to if you have complained about your dh treatment by nhs ?
You say he is a dr or is he private ?
If nhs he knows how to report and who to
Also you mentioned saying was covid did you go for a test to rule this out and have you reported his reaction to yellow card scheme

Well said, BuggerBognor - I completely understand where you are coming from, even if I might not make the same decision myself, and even if others profess not to understand.

I also agree that there is a significant amount of condescending bluster emanating from certain quarters on this (and many other) threads, generating more heat than light in most cases.

It's interesting to see the risk of the vaccine being described as 'miniscule' with a 1 in 250,000 risk. For younger people, the risk of covid is around that or even smaller but you don't see the same people describing it as 'minis
Where did you see these figures ? Do you have a link

@BuggerBognor

some other posters who seem to be close to hysterical in their fear of a very rare side effect.

I’m very far from hysterical, thanks. I just don’t want the AZ vaccine. I think that reasonable and presumably you disagree - that’s fine.

It’s the frothing that I object to - by which I mean being patronized and frothed at because I am seriously uncomfortable with the direction of travel of the AZ vaccine (and have been since the beginning, when there were suggestions about misleading data, long before my husband experienced severe side effects.

I don’t need to be told I’m scientifically illiterate or patronized into the middle of next or to have utter banal platitudes/truisms (like “feelings are not facts!) shrieked at me by people who I sincerely hope are being paid by AZ/the NHS for their tireless advocacy.

As you state from the beginning you have been critical of AZ. I think everyone can bare witness to that. Your judgement is impaired constantly by your own personal feelings. That quite frankly are only on par with Macron's at the best. You have made some scientifically inaccurate comments in many many posts on many many threads. People correct you but you don't fact check or read the latest information with a unbiased head. There was a ridiculous slur you called AZ yesterday for a start. I seriously doubt your integrity as you are still obsessively posting when you have said you won't have AZ. Plus you will keep making appointments and wasting them until you get sometimes else.

Some posters are purely posting out of some personal biterness and not for the welfare of others. Not to help have a informative debate. So just a warning to anyone worried or after information to keep that in mind ❤

@BuggerBognor

Yes I’m aware of that and I was pretty convinced that the adverse events reported were being misrepresented to drive sales of the profit-making vaccines. That conviction is fading as the number of AZ thrombocytopenia cases/deaths increases (and yes, I also know it’s still a small number, low risk etc)

Only a week or so ago we were told the criticism of AZ on the continent was political and not based in fact, no UK cases, etc. The UK is no less prone to this kind of vaccine nationalism and this might (note: might) explain why we are imposing fewer restrictions on AZ’s use. As might the price.

It doesn't at all explain that. What it suggests is are data clearly shows 19 deaths in 20 million people. It also shows we take a very good risk ratio approach. The risks for people over 30 are higher from covid. Simple as that.

The EU data shows overall that the risk from AZ are lower for all age groups that is EMA advice. What individual countries do is a different matter. Mostly to do with having plenty of people left in older age ranges to vaccinate. However they are yet again risking lives by possibly slowing their own vaccination program down. Especially at a time when cases in the EU are rising in many countries. Of course the countries that still have low cases can safely make a different choice from the EMA. The others are acting dangerously unless they have enough alternative vaccine.

buggerbognor why do you think I was referring to you as hysterical? Interesting.

As I said in my previous post, the decision to take a vaccine is a individual's choice but no vaccine or any medicine, come to that, is risk free.

The big problem I have here is that we don't yet know what might raise a person's risk of the clots. If you have conditions that might make you higher risk, then it is reasonably to be reluctant isn't it? I hope this is considered and alternatives may be offered. I suspect that won't be the case though.

[quote BuggerBognor]Plus you will keep making appointments and wasting them until you get sometimes else.

Yep, I will - as many and as long as it takes. Literally just to annoy you.

I’m simply questioning the fact that what is now accepted wisdom as a side effect was scoffed at as “political” a few weeks ago by the same people now recommending that those

@BuggerBognor who told you it was political though , a few posters on here ?
I don't remember any goverment or official nhs or anyone of importance saying it ?
Please provide a link if I am wrong
Personally I think its a choice each individual should take but would also like to see more data on the others as well as they don't appear risk free
Without all the info I can't make an informed decision as like you say a week ago it looked very different and will the same be true for other vaccinations ?
Maybe for younger people a jab might be re considered who knows its forever changing
Maybe they will find link with az and be able to have more info or I don't know change something
I don't agree with making multiple appts though and taking chance away from others if your dh is a dr he could prob find out who is giving what or very least you could ask others around who is giving what
I mean i knew on the morning what my injection would be and even few days before what likelihood would be as asked others who went to that centre , I don't think many use different ones in the same day ?

Ten fold???

They simply have been raking through reported incidents as quickly as possible and found more that were not necessarily put down as clots being the main cause before. We are looking at 19 deaths in 20 million people. The odds are worse for so many medications or life choices. A little prospective is needed.

@BuggerBognor canada still have a lot of older people to vaccinate
What do you mean by uk contract , we have contracts with a lot of vaccines we will have more than we need and have to pay for them all regardless of wether we use them , I don't think Az contract is much different and it may never of come about and we would still have to of paid for it

@BuggerBognor

Does Canada do science differently to the UK? Or is it just less financially/contractually committed to AZ?

Again, I have no truck with changing course. I do have concerns about the UK taking a more bullish approach in circumstances where reports of this particular adverse event are increasing. To the best of my knowledge, vaccinating every adult this rapidly with vaccines only approved on an emergency basis is unprecedented. So “yeah but it’s really rare and only kills a few people” does not particularly reassure me.

You need to read up on the Canadian approach, supply, case numbers etc. Every country will have different ratios for risk. Some like France ignore theirs! Well not the French experts as they have been appalling mostly but Macron is constantly going against advice. I haven't read the advice he got for yesterday mind. So will hold judgement on that one.

Again, I have no truck with changing course. I do have concerns about the UK taking a more bullish approach in circumstances where reports of this particular adverse event are increasing. To the best of my knowledge, vaccinating every adult this rapidly with vaccines only approved on an emergency basis is unprecedented. So “yeah but it’s really rare and only kills a few people” does not particularly reassure me.
Would that not apply to all the vaccines though ? And something lots have been worried about
I mean we don't know how it will show with other vaccines yet either as some not as many have had , plus reports of possible issues with the others as well
To me for young people especially ,who are at less risk of covid it makes it a difficult decision .

Here’s what other countries are doing (taken from ITV news site, which was the first that came up in a general search):

*UK: Under-30s should be offered an alternative to the AstraZeneca jab

Spain and Italy: Limit to use in those over 60

Belgium: Use suspended in people under 56 for the next four weeks

Sweden and Finland: Used only for over-65s

France and Canada: Restricted to use in over-55s

Germany: Recommended only for those over 60

Denmark and Norway: Use suspended in all age groups until at least next week

Australia: Avoid further use on under-50s*

It’s hard not to notice that we are very much the outliers here.

Link: www.itv.com/news/2021-04-08/covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-how-the-world-has-reacted-to-blood-clot-concerns

@BuggerBognor i agree if you have certain factors as well it will def make you think different
I have had az just as first murmurs if all this and I will say I would of had to think a little harder if it was today
I have to have a second and so far what I have heard i plan to have it , but if different things come to light then I may change my mind
I just think its unreasonable to expect a choice now whilst we don't have enough supplies but something that should be considered going forward even if it is paid for privately, but we are not their yet and many countries have hardly any or very few vaccines

@BuggerBognor can you provide the link for 1 in 250000 please ?