MHRA may change advice for young people receiving AZ vaccine

[IloveSooty424]

I just saw this news story on Channel 4 news tonight.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

It seems the MHRA may follow other European countries and Canada and advise that younger people should not receive the AZ vaccine. It seems the decision will be made imminently in the coming days.

I’m due to book my vaccine this week and don’t know whether to wait and see how this plays out. I’m 42. I’m also concerned that if younger people will only be offered the Pfizer vaccine it will slow down the vaccine programme substantially.

Any thoughts?

Yes, that made me upset too. He also said they get to choose.

to me the UK has either tried to hide this stuff OR as i suspect, has a v poor monitoring system. Did you watch the press conference yesterday?

If that is 'stuff' being hidden or a poor monitoring system the world is fucked!

On another thread you said I was obviously "A fan of the government and HMRA" Given your common postulations suppose that means you have some other knowledge of the HMRA? Except yuou don't as you have also made some claims that are unsubstantiated, can be easily disproven, by anyone with the smallest amount of knowledge.

Maybe as your DD and her HCP chums where the EAM and HMRA were housed until a couple of years ago. Ask them what part the HMRA played in licensing of pharmaceuticals across the EU. Without cribbing the details I gave you on another thread...

The reason I am here so often 'defending' the HMRA etc is because of posts like yours! Full of disinformation, the pretence of better knowledge (DD and her HCP cohort - really?) and repeated claims that are just not true.

@nordica

From BBC News website: "Mr Hancock said the AstraZeneca jab remained safe but if adults under 30 wanted "to have Pfizer or Moderna that's fine".

There is "more than enough of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine" for the 8.5 million people under 30 who are yet to be vaccinated in the UK to have two doses, he said."

It does feel a little unfair the rest of us don't get a choice in the same way... 8.5 million is the size of the Moderna order so that means the rest of us older than 30 are more likely now to get given AZ than we would have been without this new advice (I had assumed Moderna would start to be given to those next in line in our 40s and 30s).

Is that definite? I assumed we would use whatever was available in age order and if that was Moderna not hold it until 30s are ready

*Coffeeday

*“Unfortunately I don't think it works this way“

This is precisely how several SAGE members have said it works. The latest this morning. If you have no reaction/side effects to/from the first jab, you are “vanishingly unlikely” to experience any with the second.

nordica

It does feel a little unfair the rest of us don't get a choice in the same way... 8.5 million is the size of the Moderna order so that means the rest of us older than 30 are more likely now to get given AZ than we would have been without this new advice (I had assumed Moderna would start to be given to those next in line in our 40s and 30s”

No, the UK Moderna order is 17 million.

The news today is saying that Moderna is more likely to have side effects than the other vaccines we’ve been using. So you can’t win either way. None of them are 100% safe.

By the time below 30s have their vaccine won't we have j&j as well? which is a single dose?

And it isn't a choice as in "I'd like the Moderna one please". It will more likely be a "No, I don't want the AZ one, thanks" and, if and only if there is an alternative available, you will be given that one instead.

That assumes no underlying issues, as described in the new guidance.

@MimiPigeonwash your mouth out!!!

nypost.com/2021/04/07/covid-vaccine-site-closes-early-after-adverse-reactions-to-jj-shot/amp/

1700 people vaccinated with J&J and 13 had a severe reaction which resulted in them shutting down the vaccine centre immediately. Personally I’d feel safer taking the AZ.

If you’re not willing to do that for your family then that’s on you, but personally I think it’s selfish and reckless not to have it and knowingly put older people in particular at risk.

Surely the older people at risk would have their own vaccine and therefore not be at risk? Unless you're saying the vaccines aren't very effective, in which case no point me having one anyway. IMO medical care should always be a selfish decision, your body your choice.

DenisetheMenace
No, the UK Moderna order is 17 million.

Yes, which is enough for 8.5 million people as it's a two dose vaccine.

@vickyp0llard

If you’re not willing to do that for your family then that’s on you, but personally I think it’s selfish and reckless not to have it and knowingly put older people in particular at risk.

Surely the older people at risk would have their own vaccine and therefore not be at risk? Unless you're saying the vaccines aren't very effective, in which case no point me having one anyway. IMO medical care should always be a selfish decision, your body your choice.

But you KNOW that isn't the point!

You can make that decision as long as you acknowledge that your choice could put others at risk, that you are choosing to ignore that fact and all the data that supports it.

Not to acknowledge that fact would mean you make an uninformed decision, one you may regret when you do learn the full facts.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Why is it not the point? Do you not think older people are protected by their vaccines? The data would suggest otherwise.

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Today 09:38 nordica

DenisetheMenace
No, the UK Moderna order is 17 million.

Yes, which is enough for 8.5 million people as it's a two dose vaccine“

Yep. Hadn’t had my coffee yet. Just get my coat.

(To be fair to me, I read yours as our order being 8.5 million individual doses)

[quote bumbleymummy]@CuriousaboutSamphire

Why is it not the point? Do you not think older people are protected by their vaccines? The data would suggest otherwise.[/quote]
Oh good grief!

From BBC
Prof Jeremy Brown, a member of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, says the benefit of vaccinating young people is not just about preventing severe disease.

Talking to Sky News, he says: "It actually will prevent them catching Covid, and if they don't get Covid then the chance of developing so-called long Covid - the symptoms you get which many people get, about 10%, after they've had even a very mild infection - that will prevent that.

"So that's a benefit which we haven't brought into the calculations but is definitely there for young people.

"It also allows younger people to visit their relatives who are elderly and more vulnerable to the disease, without the risk of infecting them."

He also adds it is unlikely people will be allowed to travel internationally without being vaccinated.

I personally think everyone should have a choice. I am fed up with family members and friends telling me they had no side effects when they got the Pfizer jab (all HCPs) when I am most likely to get the AZ.

I would be happy to get the Pfizer jab - I am less happy to get the AZ one. Many other countries in Europe are limiting the AZ to over 60s and I think the UK should follow suit.

Most of the cases of albeit rare blood clots have been in women under 60
www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood

Most of the cases of albeit rare blood clots have been in women under 60 Sorry, going to pedant that! That is "most" as in an absolute number. As a percentage of women who have had AZ it is not significant, similar to the percentage of men. More women than men have been vaccinated, had AZ specifically.

Can I ask* why you think the UK should follow European countries example? What piece of information was it that persuaded you?

*I'm not being snippy or dismissive, I promise. I had that discussion on another thread and thought it might be useful to collate the reasons people have, maybe look more carefully at available information.

@TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness EU most of the vaccinations have been on people below 60 as the vaccine was quasi-effective for those over 60, Spain is just starting now to use it on below 65s so of course the values are going to be in people below 60

as the vaccine was quasi-effective for those over 60 Based on what evidence?

@jasjas1973 you aware of the yellow card system and that you can access the data so quite transparent but does rely on people reporting
But it takes time to report I guess and Germany I think was similar , had a couple cases then few days later found a lot more as went looking at the data more thoroughly maybe looking for cases and then asking questions, as appears the uk has done the same.
If somebody gets something and are ill I guess it gets treated first then maybe questions are asked about vaccine , but as this has now come to light I guess the question will be asked straight away
Prior to this , as this is something that does happen without vaccines the link hadn't been made and i guess they are doing the same with the other vaccines ( looking very closely now ) as I don't think any of them will be totally risk free ,
With regards to age difference between eu and uk I think like they said based on supplies , demographic , where you are in vaccinating etc
Uk has most older people done so unless they had az its too late to switch over if they have had one dose of pfizer as many did

@CuriousaboutSamphire

as the vaccine was quasi-effective for those over 60 Based on what evidence?

MACRON :) it was his words My comment was an irony but the reason why many European countries decided to firstly use it on those below 60s . Only few weeks ago they've decided to start vaccinating in some places to those over 60 hence why there is more below 60s affected as well

I personally believe more the British numbers as it's been given to most ages

Im sure i have read that pfizer and modena have also had severe reactions in some cases does anyone know the data on these ? Surely we should know the risks of all the vaccines we are all aware of AZ now or as it certainly seems to appear so I would like to see clear data on the others , does anyone know where I could find this please ? Too late for me as I have had m first dose of Az 3 weeks ago ( in my 40's ) but would like to know for dh and my DS about other kinds , DS will def not have Az but are the others totally risk free ? Do we have lots of data on them in younger people ?