What's all the astrozeneca hate?

[Laytwir024]

From what I've read the science shows it is just as effective as the others and no more dangerous in any way. So what is going on? Eu really having talks with Russia about sputnik? Seriously?

If this is all political then that's hideous. Or are there really issues that the UK are avoiding?

My belief is that even if there are some issues, it's still far safer than getting covid and risking long covid. I'm in my 30s and I've seen long covid in people I know.

But if I somehow had a choice, I'd actually be looking towards pfizer.

Well based on current figures then it looks like tens or more of young women in the U.K. will likely be affected or even die from this.

The U.K. could pause the AZ and wait for Moderna to check it out further but has said they won’t.

It’s all very well talking about vanishingly small risks but what if these women? Will they not matter? Their love sacrificed for some idea of common good?

This everything but covid has gone far too far and it’s making me feel sick

Even a young woman under 40 has a far greater chance of dying of COVID than of this very rare vaccine side effect (if it even is a side effect)

One person has died in the U.K. out of 18 million AZ vaccines given and we don't even know what sex or age they were nor the sex or age of 21 other people who had a CVST and 8 who had another clot with thrombocytopenia

The numbers of young women who have died of COVID are in the hundreds at least. Have you forgotten about the young female nurses who died early on in the pandemic?

There is a low risk of dying or being harmed by COVID as a young woman
But there is a many times lower risk of dying or being harmed by the vaccine

If you don't want the vaccine then take your chances with COVID because literally no-one is forcing you to have it.

2,800 deaths of women from Covid aged 20-64 March-Dec last year are the figures I can find

And this rare vaccine side effect hasn't actually killed even 1 woman in the U.K. that we know of

As I said just not a comparable level of risk at all

But we don’t know the numbers do
We?

We need to see these numbers in the context of overall women under 55 vaccinated to understand the risk.

People are floating around 1 in 40,000 and that would be based on so far rather than increasing numbers of younger women

Surely it makes sense to pause for reflection before we wholescale vaccinate younger women in this country?

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregisteredbetween9marchand28december2020

Source

Anyway you and I have discussed this all day, respectfully and I thank you for that. We are miles apart in opinion and I hope - I desperately hope - I am wrong. Firstly I want this vaccine programme to work and secondly I won’t want young females unnecessarily affected

I can only find figures for under 65 like I said but is this vaccine side effect plausibly going to kill anywhere near 2,800 women

It's just not going to is it

2,800 in 10 months
So approx 280 a month (I know that would massively vary depending on rates)
So whilst we wait people keep on dying of COVID
That's what I would call irresponsible

It isn’t just about balancing risk, part of this is also process. If there is a complication however rare in a vaccine or a drug, it is not unusual to stop and to investigate it further. We are fortunate we have three other vaccines in place that allows us to continue vaccinating while these adverse events however rare are investigated.
If this meant that women under 50 or 55 were not getting vaccinated at all that would be more problematic but given that there are existing vaccines in the grand scheme I see no harm in pausing to investigate further.
(This is not talking about the EU situation specifically).

Wow we can’t use that figure. We are talking about women under 50 or maybe 55. I would imagine the number of women under 40 dying of covid and with no risk factors is tiny.

We have other vaccines arriving soon. Why risk it?

Surely it makes sense to pause for reflection before we wholescale vaccinate younger women in this country?

Do you mean like other countries have done? But poster after poster and thread after thread have been telling us that that was all about politics and money, innit, and anyway it's all the fault of the evil, childish, Soviet, incompetent and simultaneously conniving EU even when non EU countries stop using AZ blah blah blah

Ok. Thanks too for being respectful in disagreement

I guess I feel strongly that people should understand the science and the stats and I feel like I can help with that which is why I carry on posting. I don't think I am posting anything inaccurate but happy to have it pointed out if so as it's just my interpretation and understanding although I think I have good skills to do that.

But I am all about free choice and i would never want to see anyone being forced to be vaccinated. Everyone has to make up their own minds for their own reasons.

I am also sad to see people who've already had the vaccine being so scared by this and I was hoping to reassure them too.

I suppose we could stop using AZ but what would we have in its place? Both Pfizer and Moderna have had similar incidences.

The other vaccines may have rare side effects too. I don’t imagine that any of the vaccines will have no side effects.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales

So I think I finally did find the numbers per age group in this spreadsheet and it is at least 100/month women under 55 dying of COVID in the U.K. in March, April, May, June last year which are the latest I can find unless I am reading it wrong.

If it's 280/ month under 65 then I think 100/month under 55 sounds correct so I don't think I have added it up wrong.

So I stand by my assertion that no vaccine side effect will come anywhere near that number of deaths from COVID.

Where I will agree with you is that it would likely be even safer to just use Pfizer/ Moderna but we don't have enough to switch wholesale to those for under 50s

If it's a case of be vaccinated with AZ or not at all then being vaccinated is clearly the safest option for anyone

If you have the option of Pfizer or Moderna it's probably even safer
(Unless some very rare thing comes up with those in future)

But remaining unvaccinated increases your personal risk of dying or being seriously ill (nothing to do with altruism)

Surely it makes sense to pause for reflection before we wholescale vaccinate younger women in this country?

That would be great, but people want normality now! How that happens with a vaccine delay, I don't know.

Life comes with risks and having considered the very low risk from the vaccine, I've decided to have it when my time comes.

Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have similar issues to the ones reported for the AZ vaccine so I'll have whatever I'm offered 🙂

www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2021/2/11/22276114/new-covid-19-vaccine-symptom-patients-rare-blood-disorder

I've just copied and pasted this from the NBC news website. It compares risk of death for taking the vaccine (assuming that the vaccine caused the rare bloodclots) with catching Covid and not being vaccinated.

"So, the real question is: Are the risks worth the benefits?

Even if the vaccine was the cause, and this is still not proven, the numbers suggest around one death in every 2.5 million people vaccinated.

However, this has to be weighed against the known threat posed by coronavirus.

If 2.5 million 60-year-old people caught coronavirus then around 50,000 would die. If they were all 40-year-olds then around 2,500 would die".

BBC news not NBC news.

I was advised not to have the Pfizer vaccine, as I have some severe allergies. I had AZ last week. I thought Pfizer and Moderna were also reporting blood issues? Also, didn’t a load of care home residents die (in Norway?) after being given the Pfizer vaccine?

Thanks covoid and I won’t attempt to pull apart those numbers.

Although health care workers do achieve a higher viral load and some will have higher risk factors. I still maintain a young female with no risk factors has a miniscule risk from covid. If you then test her vitamin level and optimise that, make sure things like zinc and B12 aren’t low and she isn’t overweight then I would imagine that risk is even tinier.

But what seems clear to me from data so far is that we will see serious adverse affects in younger women and they should be able to make their own choice IMHO based on their own risk factors. And you can probably work out my own view there.

AZ is too cheap, so victims of their own success. It's jeopardising profits from the other pharmaceuticals.

I thought Pfizer and Moderna were also reporting blood issues

Yes, that's correct

@mustlovegin

I thought Pfizer and Moderna were also reporting blood issues

Yes, that's correct

But not the same very rare, severe type of blood clot?

Young women should demand a different vaccine.

Risk of catching and dying of Covid (25 year old woman) = 1 in 333 333 (taken from QCovid risk calculator)
Risk of dying from AZ vaccine (on the Norwegian figures) = 1 in 40 000
Which makes the AZ vaccine far more dangerous to young women.

You're also more likely to get a clot from sitting at your home workstation for long periods of time without moving on the wrong type of chair (me) than from the vaccine.

Without the natural distractions from working with lots of people, I find it takes an iron will to make myself get up and move round regularly.

If there's any increase in clots in the population, I reckon that'll be what's behind it.