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Original poster

What's all the astrozeneca hate?

139 replies

Laytwir024 · 31/03/2021 07:26

From what I've read the science shows it is just as effective as the others and no more dangerous in any way. So what is going on? Eu really having talks with Russia about sputnik? Seriously?

If this is all political then that's hideous. Or are there really issues that the UK are avoiding? Confused

My belief is that even if there are some issues, it's still far safer than getting covid and risking long covid. I'm in my 30s and I've seen long covid in people I know.

But if I somehow had a choice, I'd actually be looking towards pfizer.

OP posts:
RedcurrantPuff · 31/03/2021 08:50

Based on the German numbers we should have seen at least 150 cases and 45 deaths.....so why aren't we seeing this? would be a better question?

The most obvious answer to that would be that there’s no link.

Anniegetyourgun · 31/03/2021 09:06

Are there no figures available for this condition in people who have not had the AZ vaccine? That thought goes through my head every time I hear another news item about it - which is pretty often! It just isn't mentioned, the implication being that it isn't happening. But implications can be misleading, as we know all too well.

Boringlynormal · 31/03/2021 09:20

Germany had bit authorised AZ for older people. We had only authorised it for older people, for the most part. It seems to affect young women. It may be that we just hadn’t vaccinated enough young women to see it yet (seems to be rare). As a young woman who just got vaccinated, it’s deeply worrying.

Boringlynormal · 31/03/2021 09:20

Sorry, Germany had NOT authorised that should say...

notrub · 31/03/2021 09:33

@Chatterbox1987

EU need to save face from the shockingly bad rollout... making AZ seem potentially unsafe makes them look like the cautious hero's and us look silly.

I don't know anyone that would refuse AZ so clearly it hasn't affect Britain's vaccine uptake so I'm not really fussed what the EU do now.

EU need to save face from the shockingly bad rollout... making AZ seem potentially unsafe makes them look like the cautious hero's and us look silly.

Err - the EU have continuously approved the AZ vaccine for use in all age groups and they are NOT responsible for the roll-out of vaccines in individual nations any more than they are responsible for the UK's rollout. The ONLY role the EU played as far as vaccines went was in acting as a bulk purchaser and each country had the ability to try to source them themselves if they wished.

And as far as the pauses go - is Canada suddenly an anti-British state too? Have they been coerced into siding with the nasty EU? Thailand too?

Given the fact that most of their >60's haven't yet been vaccinated, Germany pausing use of the jab on the

notrub · 31/03/2021 09:37

[quote jasjas1973]@Chloemol forgive if i'm wrong on this but isn't the issue with the AZ blood clotting more to do with it is linked to an extremely rare clotting problem?

what can Germany do? 30 reported cases, 9 deaths (out of 2.7m doses) they have no choice but to pause roll out.

I really do not see the "its all political/AZ is cheap" responses.

Based on the German numbers we should have seen at least 150 cases and 45 deaths.....so why aren't we seeing this? would be a better question?[/quote]
Based on the German numbers we should have seen at least 150 cases and 45 deaths.....so why aren't we seeing this? would be a better question?

We don't know is the simple answer - maybe we aren't looking hard enough, maybe Germany is looking too hard! Maybe there are other variables we haven't yet determined.

NB your numbers are wrong - you're looking at the TOTAL number of AZ vaccinations in the UK, but most of those will have been >60's. Not sure what the numbers are for those

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 31/03/2021 09:40

@Anniegetyourgun

Are there no figures available for this condition in people who have not had the AZ vaccine? That thought goes through my head every time I hear another news item about it - which is pretty often! It just isn't mentioned, the implication being that it isn't happening. But implications can be misleading, as we know all too well.
< 1 case of DIC would have been expected in the 14 days if no vaccine was given, there are 5 cases post vaccine. 1.35 cases of CVST on average in a 14 day period, there are 12 cases reported post vaccine.

There definitely is an increase, but whether that’s just co-incidental or not is as yet unproven and needs more research. Meanwhile the EMA recommends the benefits outweighs the risks. That’s the position of the official EU body responsible.

Why is everyone on here so quick to blame the EU for decisions that aren’t made by them, is also a good question.

Aposterhasnoname · 31/03/2021 10:00

Call me cynical but isn’t it funny that when our roll out first started with older people Astra Zeneca was “quasi ineffective” in that age group. Now we've finished and are ready to move on to younger people it’s suddenly dangerous for that age group!

Roonerspismed · 31/03/2021 10:11

So why aren’t we seeing these issues in UK women?

NearlyAlwaysInsane · 31/03/2021 10:18

I said the same thing to someone the other day. Female medicine doesn't seem to matter in the same way.

Er, since the concerns are mostly about blood clots in women, this isn't really logical. This is very far from a gender issue Hmm Let's try and not see everything through one lens, hey?

Boringlynormal · 31/03/2021 10:26

So why aren’t we seeing these issues in UK women?

It could be that not that many young U.K. women have been vaccinated with AZ.

QwertyGirly · 31/03/2021 10:29

@NearlyAlwaysInsane I get your point, but generally speaking new drugs, including for this vaccine, were very heavily tested on men with a smaller proportion of tests on women. It's always the case when developing and testing new drugs. White men, fewer candidates from different ethnic minorities, and fewer women. Diversity isn't always present in testing, although I understand from friends who work in the pharmaceutical industry that this is changing slowly.

There are some reseach going on at the moment about how the vaccine can affect women's periods, which was not carried out during trials, for example. There has been quite a few threads about it on Mumsnet, and there are articles in the press in other countries including this in Israel, which has a very high rate of vaccination www.israelhayom.com/2021/02/16/does-covid-19-vaccine-disrupt-menstrual-cycle/

NearlyAlwaysInsane · 31/03/2021 10:30

.....and that since these are a very small number of cases, the dots haven't been joined together yet (linking vaccination with clot a while later).....hence no data......but no data doesn't mean something isn't real......it just means you haven't looked for it and found it!

SunnyLovesCassie · 31/03/2021 10:30

Indeed, younger women already vaccinated tend to be healthcare workers who were vaccinated early on mainly with Pfizer. The U.K. has not vaccination a huge proportion of under 50s with AZ. In Germany, it's this same demographic that is now getting AZ. They are being cautious, as they should be. It's not hate of the vaccine, or politically motivated.

QwertyGirly · 31/03/2021 10:33

I really wonder why people are using such emotive language as 'hate' - it's science-based.

In this case what's heard to understand how much difference there is between the different scientific communities around the world. I am from another country, speak 3 languages and check newspapers/websites from other countries and the difference of position by scientists is huge. That does leave me puzzled and quite frankly very confused.

QwertyGirly · 31/03/2021 10:36

I meant hard to understand, not heard to understand Blush

notrub · 31/03/2021 10:58

[quote QwertyGirly]@NearlyAlwaysInsane I get your point, but generally speaking new drugs, including for this vaccine, were very heavily tested on men with a smaller proportion of tests on women. It's always the case when developing and testing new drugs. White men, fewer candidates from different ethnic minorities, and fewer women. Diversity isn't always present in testing, although I understand from friends who work in the pharmaceutical industry that this is changing slowly.

There are some reseach going on at the moment about how the vaccine can affect women's periods, which was not carried out during trials, for example. There has been quite a few threads about it on Mumsnet, and there are articles in the press in other countries including this in Israel, which has a very high rate of vaccination www.israelhayom.com/2021/02/16/does-covid-19-vaccine-disrupt-menstrual-cycle/[/quote]
generally speaking new drugs, including for this vaccine, were very heavily tested on men with a smaller proportion of tests on women

What? You're simply quite ridiculous! There were MORE women than men in the trials.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32623-4/fulltext

hernameis · 31/03/2021 11:06

I'm in Canada, AZ is only being paused for those under 55, no one under 60 is actually being vaccinated at this point anyway here due to supply shortages so it's a bit of a moot point!

poppycat10 · 31/03/2021 11:55

@Boringlynormal

So why aren’t we seeing these issues in UK women?

It could be that not that many young U.K. women have been vaccinated with AZ.

I suspect the healthcare workers who have been vaccinated in the younger age groups largely received Pfizer.

But anecdotally there seem to be a lot of under 50 women getting the vaccine now, and I am assuming the vast majority of those are getting AZ, so we might see some changes in the data.

If not, well it's a coincidence or there's another factor such as the way the immunisation is done, or some underlying condition.

generally speaking new drugs, including for this vaccine, were very heavily tested on men with a smaller proportion of tests on women

I don't believe this, I assume every trial has to be set up to cover all demographics including sex and ethnicity. Historically maybe, but not anymore.

WithTeaTree · 31/03/2021 12:02

It’s strange how we seem to have gone from a state of affairs in which we accepted that everything in life, to a lesser or greater degree, carried some element of risk, to one where even the smallest level of risk is just not tolerated and people are utterly incapable of balancing one risk against another.

If it came to a toss up between the minuscule, unproven risk of a blood clot, against the proven risk of covid (admittedly still tiny for someone of my age), then the vaccine wins hands down.

ChaBishkoot · 31/03/2021 12:05

There are some blood clots issues being investigated in the UK as per this article
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/

It makes the reasonable point that IF there are issues it would be entirely irresponsible not to stop vaccinating certain age groups and investigate.

Original poster
Laytwir024 · 31/03/2021 12:15

@Onlinedilema

You are far more likely to get a blood clot from taking the contraceptive pill, but that's fine as that only effects females.........
This is what I read which is why I've been so surprised at other governments' responses. I'm pretty shocked tbh!
OP posts:
QwertyGirly · 31/03/2021 12:24

@Laytwir024 you should read more. This isn't just bog standard blood clots, it's an extremely rare type of blood clot called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis.

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/astrazeneca-under-55-1.5968128

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