What's all the astrozeneca hate?

[Laytwir024]

From what I've read the science shows it is just as effective as the others and no more dangerous in any way. So what is going on? Eu really having talks with Russia about sputnik? Seriously?

If this is all political then that's hideous. Or are there really issues that the UK are avoiding?

My belief is that even if there are some issues, it's still far safer than getting covid and risking long covid. I'm in my 30s and I've seen long covid in people I know.

But if I somehow had a choice, I'd actually be looking towards pfizer.

NB Aldi tin foil is the most effective at stopping brain control rays.

@notrub please cite your sources on that bold statement!

Well this is already incredibly divided!

I agree the controversy is 90% due to because it's cheap. So everyone ordered it & everyone has a chance to have an opinion about it.

What really confuses me is that some of the EU countries are constantly knocking and undermining the AZ vaccine while also jumping up and down wanting more supplies of it. Either you think it's safe and you want to use it or you don't, just make your bloody mind up.

The type of clot mentioned is more common amongst pregnant women, women with certain syndromes (all of which would result in a worse covid infection), obesity, and serious inflamatory bowel disease. I imagine that the women most highest at risk of complications for covid were vaccinated and that maybe the testing of normal vaccine symptoms caused professionals to identify an existing clot.

Personally, I actually had a preference for the AZ vac, but it was the Pfizer one that was offered.
Reason for preference is that both these vacs are still very new, but the AZ is more 'normal' technology, whereas the Pfizer is the mRNA technology. That said, when my jab turn came round, and it was Pfizer, I decided that enough people must have had it by now.
My sister had the AZ vac and had flu like symptoms the following day, but then ok. But she is 'shielding' and always has so many things wrong with her health, that I did not think this was a problem with the vac. Seemed to be the vac working as intended. Body producing anti bodies, etc.
I had the Pfizer and had a headache the following day. Now waiting for 2nd dose.
I think the EU originally made some mistakes with ordering the vaccine, and then as the AZ produced at cost, the rival companies are now making waves.
So, I think it is political

I do think the EU maybe tried to influence demand in India by badmouthing AZ. It’s probably a good thing it has a different brand name in India - means idiots can’t refuse the vaccine based on an unproven link.

@milveycrohn

Personally, I actually had a preference for the AZ vac, but it was the Pfizer one that was offered. Reason for preference is that both these vacs are still very new, but the AZ is more 'normal' technology, whereas the Pfizer is the mRNA technology. That said, when my jab turn came round, and it was Pfizer, I decided that enough people must have had it by now. My sister had the AZ vac and had flu like symptoms the following day, but then ok. But she is 'shielding' and always has so many things wrong with her health, that I did not think this was a problem with the vac. Seemed to be the vac working as intended. Body producing anti bodies, etc. I had the Pfizer and had a headache the following day. Now waiting for 2nd dose. I think the EU originally made some mistakes with ordering the vaccine, and then as the AZ produced at cost, the rival companies are now making waves. So, I think it is political

I was advised AZ due to my clotting disorder. I was told pfizer is the one that can cause platelet issues and as someone with an existing autoimmune condition I should stay away as much as possible. I didn’t have a choice thank goodness but locally the teaching hospital is trying to steer those with autoimmune conditions away from pfizer.

Group 6 is anyone aged 16-64 with a particular condition and was pretty large - I suspect a reasonable number were given AZ so there should be good numbers in the UK by now?

@notrub finally someone who doesn’t take any criticism of AZ as akin to someone mirdering their first born.

This ‘the EU are out to get us/make us look bad/run our rollout’ tends to ignore that the first or country to stop giving AZ due to the blood clot issue - wasn’t in the EU!!!’ It was Norway.

It doesn’t suit the tinfoil hat brigade though to hear that. Only accepted narrative is AZ is perfect and EU is awful’

You could try reading some facts on AZ covid19-sciencetable.ca/sciencebrief/vaccine-induced-prothrombotic-immune-thrombocytopenia-vipit-following-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination-lay-summary

Covid also causes similar blood clots in some patients.
There are quite a few scientists worldwide looking into it.

@scissy

Group 6 is anyone aged 16-64 with a particular condition and was pretty large - I suspect a reasonable number were given AZ so there should be good numbers in the UK by now?

Indeed. Many have received az. I’ve volunteered 3 times. 2 az (below 60) and 1 pfizer (80+) more az have been given Than pfizer as per yellow card

I think some of the threads must be fake. There were no other sort in the coronavirus topic earlier in the week. Really??

@Boringlynormal

So why aren’t we seeing these issues in UK women?

It could be that not that many young U.K. women have been vaccinated with AZ.

Around 6m below 50 have been given a vaccine. I’d say 3-4m have been az. We should be seeing similar numbers to Germany

@RedcurrantPuff

Because it’s not for profit and the other governments are getting bungs off moderna and Pfizer?

Maybe not. Given that Pfizer has had more people have blood clots after it I don’t know why it’s AZ that seems so relentlessly under attack though.

@RedcurrantPuff but there was lots of speculation about the efficacy of Pfizer only 2months ago in Jan:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55734257
www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213566.shtml

I imagine when we get Johnson and Johnson and Moderna there will be similar stories

7.3m are in the category 16-64 wirh health conditions
1.2m for those clinically vulnerable
3.8m health workers

So I’d say many will have had az because of being cv. Mn is full of under 50s who have received it (I’ve and I’m36)
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55045639

As I said on a thread yesterday, 56.4% were female in the AZ study reported in the Lancet, so women weren't in the minority.

A lot of the health workers will have had Pfizer early on, but yes, plenty of other younger people will have had AZ. I've vaccinated some of them myself. All our local staff at our primary school have had it, & I don't imagine they are alone.

Yeah probably right @VaVaGloom. I’ve already seen stuff about Moderna in the states, causing problems at the injection sites

[quote AnchorAmore]@notrub finally someone who doesn’t take any criticism of AZ as akin to someone mirdering their first born.

This ‘the EU are out to get us/make us look bad/run our rollout’ tends to ignore that the first or country to stop giving AZ due to the blood clot issue - wasn’t in the EU!!!’ It was Norway.

It doesn’t suit the tinfoil hat brigade though to hear that. Only accepted narrative is AZ is perfect and EU is awful’[/quote]
It's not the EU stopping it. The EU medical regulators are still recommending its use. It's individual countries (who are going against EU advice). The situation in France right now suggests very strongly that they should've got on with their rollout but Macron messed it up.

The EU wouldn't be trying to block exports of AZ if they were so concerned about it.

I'm an under 55 who's had AZ more than 2 weeks ago.
I am confused by the EU response. They stopped using it for over 65s first of all due to worries about its effectiveness. Then it was OK. Then it's under 55s at risk. They are upset that they aren't getting their allocation.
They may have a point. I don't know. But it does feel a bit confused. I don't know what to think.

As with a lot of the comments on this, it’s clear that people are looking at the situation in the EU through British lenses which distorts the picture somewhat.

Britain was primed to be brilliant at delivering a mass vaccination campaign - and it has been. The population is generally pro vaccine, is open to new technology and quite risk taking, and the NHS set up means that the infrastructure is there, ready to go. The whole «roll up our sleeves and get in with it» mentality really came into its own. I’m so glad it did - all my relatives are in the U.K., including older ones.

In France, the situation is completely different. Highly vaccine-sceptic population, intensely suspicious both of government campaigns and big pharma - yet at the same time more health-anxious than your average Brit. And deeply conservative and suspicious of innovation. And no NHS - GPs here work alone, no nurses, little secretarial support. We don’t have clinics or multipurpose medical centres that can be turned into vaccination centres. Bring the army in? No way (though they have now). Recruit students / vets / volunteers to do something as invasive and dangerous as administer a vaccination??? Sacré bleu, c’est insupportable!! French health care is excellent - and it is individualised. The idea of pitching up to a big tent somewhere for a random person to stick a needle in your arm is pretty far out.

So Macron has to be seen to be ultra-cautious at every step, or he will lose the fragile confidence of even those who are willing to be vaccinated. Yes, politics plays into it - of course it does. But the whole EU vs the U.K. thing is pointless. It’s apples vs oranges: which is best at being a fruit?

@miimblemomble That’s such an interesting insight, thank you!

Supply chain issues. Absolute shambles of a roll out.

Fiddling while Rome burns and all that.