EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

Regarding the effect of vaccination in Chile, in an Al Jazeera article Dr Sebastian Ugarte, who runs the intensive care unit in Santiago’s Indisa clinic, is recorded as saying “People over 70, most of whom have already been vaccinated, have almost disappeared from our emergency rooms.
“Now, we have younger patients, but some gravely ill.”

I think they vaccinated older patients and medical staff first, so it may be that they have had time to develop immunity, or it may be that different vaccines were used.

It does look as if the UK strategy of getting at least one vaccine into as many people as possible was a wise one.

Gibbs

1/ possibly but we can roughly work this out by how many doses the UK gives.
2/the EU did make an advance payment, but that was to develop the EU supply chain as far as I am aware. 2/3 of that has been paid and it is deducted from the price per dose paid now. I am not aware that the EU contributed to the actual development of the vaccine itself, although they did of course contribute to the Jenner Institute (UK net contributor to the EU). For SA, there is no local manufacture so I am sure this impacted cost.
3 & 4/ I agree it's not 100% clear in the contract. But I disagree with your point. The UK sites will most likely be in a position to contribute to the supply of the initial doses (well before EU prevented Halix deliveries) just not yet! I don't know if the UK actually got done over re Halix or 1 reactor was to be UK (smaller in size), 1 EU. So no perceived conflict between the contracts. Now the UK will get none which could actually mean the EU is fully supplied before the UK.
5/ it doesn't that I am aware of and they don't! At this time I don't think the EU have exported any AZ to Oz.
6/ I think many contract lawyers would argue at this time there is no breach of a best reasonable efforts contract. I am no contract lawyer so I may be wrong.
7/ UK contract with AZ was signed one day after EU (different entities) but there was a previous agreement with Oxford which was well publicised.
8/VDL said EU shortfall should be made up by UK supply. Since the UK doesn't even make enough to fully cover our domestic needs it could be argued that she wanted all UK manufacture. Shortfalls in Production - well it depends on the contract you have! The UK for instance worked very hard to secure its supply. Why should that supply then go to EU? The IP also came from UK and the UK did not prevent AZ / EU creating a bigger EU supply chain.
9/is EU exporting AZ - apologies if I have got that wrong. I didn't think they were.

There was an interesting update yesterday about Sputnik.

German authorities have been asking Russia for the data for weeks, with no success.
Germany wishes to get EMA approval before giving the Russian vaccine the green light.

However, Slovakian national drug regulator said 'a batch differed significantly from those reviewed by the EMA and the Lancet medical journal. The only thing about these vaccines have in common is their name' the regulator said.

Jens Spahn, the German health minister has said that Germany have to be careful that Sputnik is not a 'mirage'.

The bottom line is that Russia seem reluctant to share data, authorities have their doubts about the safety and reliability of batches of Sputnik and quite frankly many countries using this out of desperation, whilst also discrediting AZ may come to regret not just their choice of vaccine provider, but also the political implications and consequences.

I also note Biden is now moving to block Nordstream....

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/08/german-regulator-advises-under-60s-had-astrazeneca-jab-have/

@Itsalonghaul interesting re Sputnik vaccine, I wouldn’t trust it with a barge poll, at least with AZ all the data is open for all to see.

There is also the issue of Russian troops on Ukraine border, how Germany can contemplate Nord 2 with Russia is beyond me.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56678665

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1420713/angela-merkel-news-russia-vladimir-putin-ukraine-troops-border-world-war-3-crimea

I don’t normally link the Express but the video of all the tanks is frightening

[quote Itsalonghaul]www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/08/german-regulator-advises-under-60s-had-astrazeneca-jab-have/[/quote]
France is going as well for the mixing approach despite there is not yet evidence of the outcome
I think it's a running around like a headless chicken tbh

My Spanish friends who have had 1 dose of AZ want their second AZ dose,

UK has sent/allowed export of 700k AZ doses to Australia, according to rumours from Aus which the UK govt wont deny...

Thats good, though a great shame they couldn't have sent to a country with v high infection rates.

EU still not blocking vaccine to the UK, Moderna batches made in europe arriving in the UK...

Perhaps ask MNHQ to change the title of thread? lol.

@jasjas1973

UK has sent/allowed export of 700k AZ doses to Australia, according to rumours from Aus which the UK govt wont deny...

Thats good, though a great shame they couldn't have sent to a country with v high infection rates.

EU still not blocking vaccine to the UK, Moderna batches made in europe arriving in the UK...

Perhaps ask MNHQ to change the title of thread? lol.

Australia was begging few weeks ago to the EU for vaccines so they could send them to Papua New Guinea and they are currently in the position of sending some

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-to-send-tens-of-thousands-of-vaccines-to-png-and-east-timor-20210409-p57hyh.html

@jasjas1973

UK has sent/allowed export of 700k AZ doses to Australia, according to rumours from Aus which the UK govt wont deny...

Thats good, though a great shame they couldn't have sent to a country with v high infection rates.

EU still not blocking vaccine to the UK, Moderna batches made in europe arriving in the UK...

Perhaps ask MNHQ to change the title of thread? lol.

It isn't up to the UK where it's sent, it isn't charity and it isn't dangerous weapons, it's up to Astrazeneca what they send where. They are just a company fulfilling orders as best they can.

Once UK has vaccinated its population and had spare doses that it owns, that's when you might comment or criticise where the government donates them.

That article states locally made AZ vaccine to be sent to PNG, no mention of Aus 'begging EU' yet again more anti EU slant.

Esp given that the EU has terrible infection rates, 7 day avg in France is approx 40k & they are in a full on LD, with travel restricted to 10km only.

EU is simply not in a position to export vaccine.

Its the UK that has the historical & commonwealth links with Aus and if any country would be asked, it should be the UK and its good the UK has responded, we are able too.

@jasjas1973

That article states locally made AZ vaccine to be sent to PNG, no mention of Aus 'begging EU' yet again more anti EU slant.

Esp given that the EU has terrible infection rates, 7 day avg in France is approx 40k & they are in a full on LD, with travel restricted to 10km only.

EU is simply not in a position to export vaccine.

Its the UK that has the historical & commonwealth links with Aus and if any country would be asked, it should be the UK and its good the UK has responded, we are able too.

@jasjas1973 here you've the one of Australia urging the EU to send 1m doses so they could send to PNG www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/australia-urges-eu-to-send-1-million-covid-vaccines-for-papua-new-guinea/

Once UK has vaccinated its population and had spare doses that it owns, that's when you might comment or criticise where the government donates them

But ok for you and others to comment/criticise etc on the EU?

aside what i comment on is up to the rules of the forum, not you.

As the UK has exclusive contracts with AZ, an effective block, the UK govt certainly intervened and allowed AZ to for fill other contracts ahead of the UK one.

Best reasonable efforts in Belgian law doesn't mean they just have to try their best. It actually has a legal definition meaning that performance against the contract is what you would expect from a company of a particular size and with particular experience. Eu obviously expected better.

the one of Australia urging the EU to send 1m doses so they could send to PNG

Quite incredible!
We have pages of criticism of the EU for threatening to interfere in business contracts between AZ and EU/UK..... but then having a go at the EU for not intervening in contracts between AZ and Australia.

The title talks of the threat. Are you denying the threat was made and still hovers ?

Huh? They refused to allow Australian vaccines to be exported

@Itsalonghaul. I wouldn't touch the Sputnik jab with a barge pole too.. theres just too much secrecy and not enough honesty and transparency. My parents live in hk. Hence I'm doing alot of research on sinovac vaccine for them because its similar in the sense with sputnik theres not really any trial 3 data and yet some government are by passing that stage and approving it..
Sinovac had no data for how it would react or respond to the elderly and those that had underlying health issues. So in china up until a few days ago never vaccinated their own people who were in this category as a precaution. However, in neighbouring Hong Kong they decided to use the elderly and the sick to vaccinate them first with sino vac vaccine. Obviously the take up has been very slow. Hong kong in previous years has been regarded as one of the most riches economically free city in the world, use cutting edge science and try and give the best health to care to its people. Now it's like third world country having to use vaciine that's not many believe in and want to take. The government have all this surplus money but for all intense purposes politics is playing a massive part. Pfizer which is available in hk has had a lot of misinformation from china saying that it wasnt suitable for chinese people... I've never heard so much crap.. and people would believe it especially the old and vulnerable.

Now they are saying that if people dont have the sinovac they can't go to mainland china. For work purposes or to see relatives have holiday etc...

My parents were waiting for the AZ vaccine to arrive in Hong kong which the government had ordered. Many are willing to take the AZ vaccine. But because AZ has no efficay on south African strain government ministers are blocking it for alternatives that may take a while.

Theres already talks on vaccine passport and they may ban certain vaccines as being not good enough as a means of refusing entry. I guess AZ will be on that list if that happens.. I hope other countries are not going to apply this or all hell will break loose and things are going to get very political and nasty.. vaccine becoming weaponized.
Look at Turkey there infections has gone exponentially again because of their over reliance on the sino vac vaccine. China hasn't delivered the promised amount. I doubt they knew the efficay after 1 dose being 28days later was going to be only 3% when it jabbed the first 10+million I think the numbers were. And they have not enough for 2nd doses. Now they having to scramble to get other vaccines..

I just want to see my parents on the other side of the world . So frustrating for us at the moment.

@TheHoneyBadger

The title talks of the threat. Are you denying the threat was made and still hovers ?

UK has just received 100s of 1000s of Moderna vaccine (made in europe), so yes the threat has been removed, i believe Bojo has said similar.

But because AZ has no efficacy on south African strain government ministers are blocking it for alternatives that may take a while

I thought all the vaccines currently approved, show high effectiveness against all CV strains, in terms of preventing serious illness.

None offer protection against mild illness?

The threats having been made and the rhetoric from vdl are big issues. If you don’t want to discuss those issues and their ramifications no one is making you

@jasjas1973

Once UK has vaccinated its population and had spare doses that it owns, that's when you might comment or criticise where the government donates them

But ok for you and others to comment/criticise etc on the EU?

aside what i comment on is up to the rules of the forum, not you.

As the UK has exclusive contracts with AZ, an effective block, the UK govt certainly intervened and allowed AZ to for fill other contracts ahead of the UK one.

I am not "others". I responded to your specific comment about it being a shame "the UK" didn't "give" the doses to somewhere with a higher infection rate. You have missed the point; these are not UK doses to give, the UK just didn't interfere with AZ fulfilling contracts.

Breaking news - Germany to use Sputnik. Talks just finalising agreement.

Without EMA approval notably.

So either Germany are utterly desperate for vaccines - any vaccines, or this is political stand against Biden/ West by breaking away from the usual protocol and EU policy.

Just how on earth is a Russian vaccine going to help the German public already very wary and worried country and furious at the way this has been handled?! Is this just not another blunder to add to the list.

I really don’t understand the logic Germany are following here, the data for Sputnik isn’t exactly forthcoming is it? If AZ took a PR battering how are they selling Sputnik to the population, particularly with the recent news from Slovakia.

@Mumzieeee - the Brazil trial showed sinovac had quite low efficacy at 53%, even though Turkey had been high at 91%; results in Chile look mixed so far with the main issue being that it seems to need two doses within two weeks then another few weeks to get immunity, which sounds too odd to be quite right. I think sinopharm had better results initially but worldwide trials are still concluding. It depends on their likely exposure and options; something may yet be better than nothing, with an antibody test and different jab later if needed.

Do you have a link longhaul?