Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

@AbsentmindedWoman

So the UK has had 57 cases of thrombocytopenia in total, between A and Pfizer? Are the demographics of these people known - were they mostly women?

I'm being thick here, but surely if a handful of younger women had died after either vaccine in the UK it would be reported on some news outlet?

I had thought the reason Pfizer was not getting any shit was because of the rarity of this blood clot complication.

Why is it only AZ coming under fire if the numbers are't significantly different? This is really odd.

The numbers are different though, there’s zero indication, at this point, that the Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, or Johnson & Johnson vaccines have caused any deaths at all. The same cannot be said for the AZ vaccine.

It's not news I want to hear just after having had my vaccine! I felt so happy earlier. I'd had a bit of a battle to get my jab sorted. Now I'm just a little worried, being female, under 50, and in the process of getting diagnosed with an autoimmune condition.

I really think we need to know the breakdown of trial volunteers by sex. Likewise reported cases of this rare blood clot.

I saw the warning earlier in this thread against taking aspirin but I'm tempted to take a 75mg dose for the next two weeks.

@Globetrotter123

Also feeling v nervous today - had AZ 4 days ago. Suffer from chronic migraine so how would I know if I had ‘just’ a migraine (which lasts days anyway) or a reaction? Mother who had a brain haemorrhage and a stroke before 52 so it’s a bit close to home.

Can you hang in for something else if your refuse a 2nd AZ jab?

This is my concern too. I get perimenopausal headaches particularly in warmer weather. I guess we have to look out for anything unusual, a different type of headache.

Did any of the trials include people with autoimmune conditions? I got screened out of the novavax because of the medication I take.

@Eligiblebutwrongtick I’m in the same position as you. Vaccinated three days ago and in my 30s. I’m now feeling very anxious after reading the news today however after blind panic I’ve just had a good read through all the available information and while I think there is reason to be cautious, the actual risk appears to remain very low. I don’t think there has been much of a change from the data that the EU reviewed when a number of EU countries temporarily suspended the vaccination but Canada and Germany are both being sensibly cautious. Make sure you’re aware of what to look out for. I read last week that if picked up early the condition is relatively treatable. I now helpfully have a stress induced headache!

I am mid fifties, two autoimmune conditions, had the jab two weeks ago and am fine so far.

If anyone is worried they should speak to their GP. Taking aspirin as a prophylactic without checking with your GP first is not a good idea.

AZ trial definitely had plenty of younger and middle aged women including me. They were recruiting U.K. health professionals of whom many are women

This article has lots of information about what is happening:

www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/rare-clotting-disorder-may-cloud-worlds-hopes-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine

"Europe is relying heavily on the vaccine as well; the European Union bought 400 million doses. The company’s failure to deliver on time has delayed vaccine rollouts on the continent, and now dented confidence is exacerbating the delays. And even if the risk is very low, it may make sense to use the vaccine only in those who also stand to gain the most from it: elderly people at high risk of dying from COVID-19. Several European countries have started to do this. The situation has scientists walking a tightrope: They want to make the medical profession aware of their concerns without sowing panic.

But Greinacher’s hypothesis is being taken seriously. Two German medical societies put out press releases lauding him for solving the issue. In the Netherlands, the Dutch Internal Medicine Society urged internists to be aware of the symptoms and the recommended course of action. The United Kingdom has officially reported only five cases—despite administering 11 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine—but the British Society for Haematology has urged its members to be aware of “an important and emerging area of haemostasis and thrombosis practice” and to report any possible cases. The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation has recommended against giving any COVID-19 vaccine to people with a history of HIT."

Aloethere where are you getting the idea that AZ vaccine has 'caused deaths' and no other vaccine has

If that was true it would be banned

No deaths have been found to be conclusively caused by COVID vaccinations at all and if they were they would be taken off market

Approx 212 deaths were reported by the yellow card system after a Pfizer vaccine and 244 after AZ which is non significantly different

Deaths occurring after a person was vaccinated don't in any way mean they were caused by the vaccine.

@Boringlynormal

In really sorry, I’m not trying to scaremonger. Just feeling scared. I really am pro vaccine. When you’re injected with something on Friday it’s quite alarming on Tuesday when two countries say ‘We’re not sure that’s safer than the risk of Covid for your age group and sex, and if you get the life-threatening side effect it’ll start anytime in the next couple of weeks with some vague symptoms’.

Boring, why did you start two threads on the same subject today?

The numbers are different though, there’s zero indication, at this point, that the Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, or Johnson & Johnson vaccines have caused any deaths at all. The same cannot be said for the AZ vaccine.

So (again feel I'm being dim here!) of the 57 cases of thrombocytopenia reported in the UK between Pfizer and AZ shots, do you mean nobody died - the people who have died have coincidentally been those in Europe who had AZ?

Still not sure I get it tbh. If the 57 UK cases were a mix of Pfizer and AZ, that seems odd to me that AZ is the only one being flagged up as a potential problem.

What am I missing?

@pinkearedcow Bore off.

Aspirin as a prophylactic doesn’t work for venous blood. Arterial blood yes, but not venous blood.
If you’ve had the vaccine and are worried, just make sure you keep well hydrated. A lot of these clots are exacerbated / caused by dehydration. And if you’re feeling unwell after the jab you’re probably less likely to drink. So drink up!

The flagging of the problem is from European cases not U.K. cases
As far as I know there were no deaths from vaccine induced clotting issues in the U.K.
It is true to say that the AZ vaccine has mainly been given to older people in the U.K. and younger people in Europe (because they thought it didn't work in older people)

Yes that’s the key question Absentminded. Someone posted a link on an earlier thread to a medical journal where the comments below suggested that some similar complications had been seen with Pfizer in the US but that the US medical establishment had worked out how to treat them and had prevented all deaths after the first. Buggered if I can find it now.

If this very rare side effect is specific to AZ then we should probably think about switching younger women to other vaccines ASAP, especially since Moderna and Novavax will be coming on stream soon, because if you have an effective alternative available that’s slightly safer why wouldn’t you? However if it’s an unavoidable side effect of the way that all vaccines prime our immune systems to deal with the virus, then we would need to do some serious thinking about whether it’s worth vaccinating women in their twenties at all, or whether the risk is manageable with a post vaccine screening programme.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

The flagging of the problem is from European cases not U.K. cases As far as I know there were no deaths from vaccine induced clotting issues in the U.K. It is true to say that the AZ vaccine has mainly been given to older people in the U.K. and younger people in Europe (because they thought it didn't work in older people)

Yes, I know Europe have flagged it as a problem, not UK.

I thought that, separately, the UK yellow card reporting system showed 57 instances of thrombocytopenia in total after either Pfizer or AZ - that is what I was referring to. Perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick though.

[quote Boringlynormal]@pinkearedcow Bore off.[/quote]
Charming. It's fairly reasonable I think to ask why you started two threads this morning on the Canada/AZ issue.

Yes I think it did and that none of those people died
Also not clear to me if it was this specific HIT issue or something more common like a DVT which I'd happily accept was chance

I think if I had a known clotting disorder or a strong family history of clotting problems and I was low risk for covid complications I would be holding off from having AZ until more is known.

Fortunately I don't have any clotting risk factors, but my friend does (hereditary clotting disorder that lead to an abruption of the placenta and subsequent stillbirth) and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if she delays having the vaccine and would not criticise her at all for that decision.

Definitely not all men, I personally know a woman who had a clot afterwards (Scotland).

Charming. It's fairly reasonable I think to ask why you started two threads this morning on the Canada/AZ issue.

Haha ‘charming’ from the person who quoted my post apologising, explaining I wasn’t scaremongering just anxious and said ‘boring’.

Just be nice or go away. I’ve no time for this thread police nonsense.

‘Countries’ or ‘Europe’ are not making public statements about safety of vaccines: individuals and specific organisations are, and some publications and commentators are reporting on those statements.

Have regard to the specific sources of statements and any evidence they put forward.

Sigh.

“Boring” was me referring to you by your username of Boringlynormal, not calling you or your post boring. People often shorten user names when addressing a poster and this is what I (obviously misguidedly did). Genuine apologies if you thought otherwise.

If this very rare side effect is specific to AZ then we should probably think about switching younger women to other vaccines ASAP, especially since Moderna and Novavax will be coming on stream soon, because if you have an effective alternative available that’s slightly safer why wouldn’t you? However if it’s an unavoidable side effect of the way that all vaccines prime our immune systems to deal with the virus, then we would need to do some serious thinking about whether it’s worth vaccinating women in their twenties at all, or whether the risk is manageable with a post vaccine screening programme.

Yes, these are exactly the questions in my mind too @FourWordsImMuNiTy.

I'd add to that a question about people who are having cancer treatment/ recently finished - especially women as they're more prone to autoimmune issues.

As a woman in my thirties with several autoimmune conditions who has had the second Moderna shot on Saturday (very happy to be done, and would do it again in a flash) I'm just frustrated at the vagueness around this.

If it turns out that women under 50 (especially with any form of compromised immune system) DO have a significant risk from one particular vaccine and would have better odds getting another, I will be fucking furious.

I'm sick of situations that make it clear that things affecting women's health aren't taken seriously until something goes badly wrong.

I think it's wrong to conflate this very rare condition (HIT) with more normal clotting disorders as the incidence of DVT and PE is lower in people who have been vaccinated in the trials and in the combined U.K. and European data. (That is not surprising because COVID causes blood clots)

As I understand it there were 8 cases of this HIT like condition which is a really weird disorder because having low platelets would usually lead to bleeding and not to clotting.

I can give credence to the idea that COVID vaccines (plausibly any of them) might cause this disorder very very rarely but that doesn't mean there is an increased risk of a blood clot overall. The overall risk is reduced.

‘Countries’ or ‘Europe’ are not making public statements about safety of vaccines: individuals and specific organisations are, and some publications and commentators are reporting on those statements.

Perhaps. But when 'countries' halt a vaccine rollout temporarily to re-assess, it makes one pause.