Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

BBC have stated that if all under 40s caught covid there would be 2,500 deaths in this age group which would probably be much less deaths than from blood clots if all under 40s had the vaccine. However I suspect many people in this age group are not susceptible to catching covid at all.

@Fieldofmemes

'The government should get a different jab for these women'

There are instances of people developing these clots with Pfizer, there maybe some who get it with Moderna, Novavax and every other that gets developed. Or indeed some other side effect.

The clots are so rare that there isn't an accurate baseline. Anywhere from 2 in 1 millions to 16 in 1 million. The current UK stats are at the bottom of that range

When so many people have been vaccinated, there are going to be links to all manner of things because normal background illness will still occur.
Whilst this needs research, without question, I cannot get my head around the hysteria of 'stop giving AZ NOW'

Risk to a 25 year old woman of catching and dying of Covid according to qcovid: 1 in 333 333
Risk to same woman of dying from AZ vaccine (on the Norwegian figures) 1 in 40 000
Somebody with more scientific expertise needs to explain this. But given that so many countries have seen fit to ban the use of AZ for younger age groups I would say there is a reason to be concerned.

I do think that this supports the principle of vaccinating the vulnerable first, rather than the people most exposed by their profession.

After the 30,000 trial volunteers have shown basic safety (I think that includes placebo though?), it is appropriate to vaccinate the people who are most at risk from Covid because the risk of taking a vaccine at a relatively early stage is definitely worthwhile for them. A ninety five year old has got over ten thousand case studies to support safety, and that’s absolutely good enough because their Covid risk is enormous. A seventy five year old has had a few million people vaccinated before them, and that’s also fine for their level of risk. Each band acts as guinea pigs for the risk band below them. That’s why I’ve not supported the call for, for example, healthy twenty five year old female primary school teachers, whose Covid risk is very low, to be bumped up the priority list.

(Of course a lot of young female healthcare workers were vaccinated very early on as well, for understandable reasons.)

i’m a 25 year old primary school teacher who has had this over a week ago , i was vaccinated due to having asthma and now i’m panicking
from what i understand the risk is still incredibly low ?

The risk, even if it is real, is very very low lauryn. If your asthma is severe enough for you to get the vaccine earlier than your age band then your Covid risk will be far higher (still pretty low in absolute terms). You’re much better off having Covid protection.

It is so difficult to assess the risk because you need to start from the same point. Comparing 'risk of dying from vaccine' to 'risk of dying if you catch COVID' isn't equal in my view - because at the moment I haven't got COVID and I am actually pretty unlikely to get it if nothing much changes (not mixing much, low rate of prevalence). So to me the true comparison is 'risk of catching and then dying from COVID' vs risk of vaccine. Risk of catching and then dying from COVID is clearly much lower than risk of dying from COVID once you have caught it.

I will take whichever vaccine I am offered. But when it comes to my children I am much more unsure.

@Roonerspismed

Can I please say that many of us have declined the pill precisely because of the rather common side effects and other issues?

I wish people could stop throwing that at me. “Well there is this drug which is far worse than any vaccine issue so what is the problem”

Hear hear. I was given Dianette by my GP in my late teens for acne and it ended up almost ruining my life due to the mood swings and inability to focus on anything. I only realised the link in my early 20s and my health and well being soared after coming off it.

If I knew then what I know now... This is why medical treatment of any sort must always be a choice, and must always be an INFORMED choice.

And the reason why the relatively high clot risk from having the pill is considered acceptable is because it in turn is much lower than the clot risk from pregnancy. During the 1996 pill scare about clotting large numbers of women came off their pills and ended up with unwanted pregnancies, and abortions and inevitably some had serious medical complications.

There’s lots of medication I won’t take because of side effects.
There’s lots of medication I am adviced to not have on medical grounds. There’s meds I can only have if I’m being properly monitored and I don’t mean sitting in a waiting room for 15 minutes.

But ultimately I am aware of the risks to me before having whatever and I still have the choice.

Even before Vipit and low platelets I was advised not to have it because of unknown contras.

It’s so easy to say oh get it the risk is higher if you get CV. Yet, how many of you actually know your platelet levels? I know mine and they are already low.

There are reports this morning that the US is probably not going to use the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The US is sitting on tens of millions of AZ doses. These could be used to boost the UK's vaccination programme.

@MrsIsobelCrawley

There are reports this morning that the US is probably not going to use the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The US is sitting on tens of millions of AZ doses. These could be used to boost the UK's vaccination programme.

Why the UK's, specifically? Plenty of other countries who would also happily take them!

The Mexican Covid situation is very scary at the moment - if I were Biden I’d offer the AZ over the border if they want them.

Yep and I think that's what he'll do. Maybe Brazil too, since that's now the epicenter, meaning high risk of mutations, which represents some risk to the US too.

Is it ethical to offer a vaccine not deemed good enough for Americans to Brazilians?

@anyoldtime

Is it ethical to offer a vaccine not deemed good enough for Americans to Brazilians?

Shall they expire and in the meantime cases in Brazil continue raising ? Az might be worse than others but the worse vaccine is the one that isn’t being used

but the worse vaccine is the one that isn’t being used

That doesn’t make sense!
Biden cannot give to poorer countries medication US citizens can’t/won’t take!

Query why we've only heard about the UK unusual blood clots now. And why so many more in mainland Europe? I have yet to see anything whether this relates to the 2nd dose, as our strategy to stretch to 12 weeks between doses was guided by wanting to vaccinate as many as possible (although it appears the delay in the 2nd dose makes it more effective). In Europe, as far as I know, the initial dose regimen was a gap of 4-8 weeks. Can we therefore pressume that many more in Europe have had a 2nd dose and only a very few have had the 2nd dose here. I'm surprised noone has asked this question yet.

I'm surprised noone has asked this question yet

The question has been asked. The general thought was too few have been injected with the second dose and the data relayed to first doses.
I read that on another thread.

If you have had or think you have had Covid then get an antibody test. If you already have natural antibodies to Covid then it would be rational to weigh up the benefits of the vaccine versus the risk. If you do not have natural antibodies then personally I would have the vaccine but it should be every individuals choice and I would never criticise someone for still choosing not to have the vaccine.

@1dayatatime a really good point. You can get an antibody test quite easily - I think Supadrug and Lloyds Pharmacy offer them online. You can also get a test that shows your exact level of antibodies, although this is only available from private clinics and is expensive. Either test might help you decide (balancing all your risk factors, of course) whether you can wait a bit before you get the jab. I have even heard (from a doctor) the argument that someone with antibodies should not get the vaccine, in case of a hyperimmune reaction. But I've no idea if that's a fringe view or not.

@anyoldtime presumably it's fine if the Brazilians / Mexicans use AZ in line with other countries e.g. limiting use to the over-55/60s as Canada, Norway, France etc. are doing. That age group is going to be a priority anyway.

@Canigooutyet exactly. So many people are in the position of having health issues which may not put them in the high risk category for Covid but require them to be very careful about medication etc. Given that the problem with the AZ vaccine seems to be an immune overreaction (at least that's what the doctors in Norway / Germany said) I would have thought people with autoimmune disorders who are not on immune-suppressing medication might need to be wary. A wider choice of vaccines would help, as would the dropping of the vaccine-passport idea, except perhaps for international travel.

Even for travel I don’t understand why this cannot be done in the same way as other vaccines are needed for certain countries. This would make much more sense. It’s a system already in place that is globally accepted.

@FourWordsImMuNiTy the rollout programme made (and makes) perfect sense for the higher risk cohort. Where the risk of Covid is high, the AZ vaccine is always the better option over risking the virus. However, the information about this side effect has only emerged in the past few weeks. It significantly alters the risk/benefit ratio among the lower-risk groups - especially when you get down to the female twentysomething age group. Of course, in a world where the AZ vaccine was the ONLY option, this would be an UNAVOIDABLE risk for that group (unless of course they just choose to risk Covid instead). But AZ ISN'T the only option. There are other vaccines out there.