Your position on Covid lockdowns

[kellehi]

Well, I have seen a lot of people on here changing as the wind blows and the government continues to move the goalposts with respect to lockdowns, and so the same happens here. So just wondering what your position on this will be in the future, if X happens.

Please start your post with the relevant number below, you can expand on this if you want, but not necessary.

1 - we should end the lockdown and open things up now.
2 - we should open up as originally promised on 21 June, regardless of the government position
3 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when everyone over 18 who wants a vaccine can have one
4 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when adults are vaccinated
5 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when every person including adults and children are vaccinated
6 - I think some element of lockdown should continue indefinitely whenever the government says it's required, even if it means years waiting.

Thanks

@PrincessNutNuts

Thank you *@kellehi*, but I'm going to stick with the Office for National Statistics' analysis.

The Office for National Statistics will tell you exactly this. In fact it is from their data that I found the number of deaths as listed in 1a.

I gave you the number from June last year as that's when I last downloaded their data and had the spreadsheet handy on my PC and needed to set my family members' minds at ease, because if you pardon my French, they were s*ting themselves due to the media reports and even going as far to disinfect and sanitise every piece of shopping that was delivered from Tesco.

Couldn't really be arsed to waste a lot of time digging out the latest 1a figures for a random on the internet, but I think I proved my point to everyone else on this thread who are willing to open their minds...

According to Public Health England, over a 5 month period, around 30% each month Covid wasnt an underlying cause to the death despite being on the death certificate.
So imagine on a bigger scale on the overall death toll?

144,000 Covid deaths, my arse hole.

@kellehi why the neck would the Government want to have the highest death toll? Seriously.

1!!!!!!!!!!!

But I'd settle for 2.

2

1 - end lock down now, enough is enough, try and get things back to normal.

We protected the old and vulnerable they have been vaccinated. Now is the time to get back to normal

1. As to this "when hospital rates allow it", well, in that case there is no more freedom, because every winter the NHS is overwhelmed for one reason or another. What about the next thing that comes along? Will they just station security guards outside our houses?

2, but with preparations in place to go to 6 at any time if necessary.

[quote Myalternate]*@kellehi why the neck would the Government want to have the highest death toll? Seriously.[/quote]
Because it will s the population up and have the likes of half of mumsnet supporting everything they do, including whenever they change the goalposts, which happens frequently.

The higher the numbers the more it supports the supposed necessity of their disastrous economic and personal livelihood destroying lockdowns...

If there had been any cost/benefit analysis showing us very clearly that the harms of lockdown are the lesser of two evils then I may feel differently. I have seen no such thing and so enough is enough.

1. People are suffering mentally, financially and have had enough. We've done a year and the vulnerable have been vaccinated and the NHS isn't overwhelmed so I see no reason to prolong this lockdown.

1 but I'd accept 2

Is that you Boris?

You appear to have missed out the option of opening up as per the route map, but ONLY if we genuinely meet the criteria at each stage. NOT just on set dates.
This

1. I'd rather die than live this half life.

kellehi The vast majority of MN are anti government and regularly condemn them for the lack of earlier lockdown, Eat Out to Help Out, not closing the boarders soon enough and a myriad of other things. If deaths were reported in the numbers as you believe them to be, the public would be more inclined to think the lockdown was effective don't you think?

2 I don’t think we could mentally deal with lockdown going on any longer. We need to look at the damage lockdown is doing to mental and physical health. We are getting fatter and more depressed by the day. Plus businesses are going under left right and centre. The vulnerable are vaccinated now so the NHS are less likely to be overwhelmed.

6 - we should have lockdown forever so I can continue to hide in my fear bunker and never have to have any sort of meaningful interaction with anyone ever again.

3

None of your options are correct IMO, it should be:

We should ease out of restrictions from now but not on arbitrary dates but scientific data AND we should be doing much more to suppress cases so that everyone unvaccinated has a much lower risk of contracting covid.

None of these
We should end lockdown when the data supports it, hopefully 21 June but later if that’s what is required.

The highest risk demographics are now significantly protected by 1 and often 2 doses of the vaccine. This has achieved the mission of protecting the NHS.
I don't think often is the right word.

1!

I think we should open up gradually as planned and be prepared to lockdown or have some restrictions in place when and if required. I’m hoping with half the adult population now vaccinated, deaths and hospitalisations will dramatically decrease and continue to stay down, however if that doesn’t happen, then it’s obvious we can’t go back to “normal” and just allow people to die and the nhs to collapse as that would be no good for the economy and/or for those with mental health complaints either.

@PrincessNutNuts - Or the excess deaths.

Yes, I agree, there is the tricky matter of the excess deaths being higher than previous years. This is not unexpected, and we have to hypothesise as to the cause.

I'd say a fairly significant proportion of these will be down to two things.

a) the government causing people to s* their pants and stay home and avoid the NHS when they really needed medical treatment. Because the NHS is where the Covid cases are, and as every person knows, that if you go in to hospital there is a risk of you catching an unrelated infection and never coming out. And not your bog standard C. diff or MRSA. They had Covid now too. Things were different back in 2020. Covid was considered to be more serious disease as they miscalculated the infection fatality rate, now with data they have found it to be much less deadly than they were saying. Remember, everyone was watching the faked videos from China of people dropping dead in the street. Never happened here. So instead people died at home instead when they could have lived if they went to hospital. ONS excess 'deaths at home' (domestic dwelling, not care home) figures would support this. You can get these figures from the ONS and compare with the five year average www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinprivatehomesenglandandwalesprovisional/deathsregisteredfrom28december2019to11september2020 (scroll down a bit for the graphic), or you can read the Nuffield Health conclusions here: www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/home-deaths-now-account-for-as-many-excess-deaths-since-the-start-of-the-pandemic-as-deaths-in-care-homes

b) The NHS in 2020 was largely denying treatment to anyone and everyone if it's not Covid-19, maternity or A&E, along with sticking DNARs on all the old people who were locked up in solitary confinement with no visitors whatsoever, except if it was an end of life situation. You NHS workers can claim all you like that your section was business as usual and nobody was denied treatment at all, but we all know that's not the case throughout the NHS.

Finally, have a look at these numbers...

Figures for Scotland, numbers for inpatients and day treatments...

2015 – April to June – 267,347
2016 – April to June – 274,635
2017 – April to June – 265,295
2018 – April to June – 268,200
2019 – April to June – 274,133
2020 – April to June – 141,761

Many of those will be time sensitive lifesaving treatments such as chemotherapy and radiotherapy. I wonder what will have happened to those 130,000 odd people who usually require that sort of regular hospital treatment, but have had it cancelled?