Your position on Covid lockdowns

[kellehi]

Well, I have seen a lot of people on here changing as the wind blows and the government continues to move the goalposts with respect to lockdowns, and so the same happens here. So just wondering what your position on this will be in the future, if X happens.

Please start your post with the relevant number below, you can expand on this if you want, but not necessary.

1 - we should end the lockdown and open things up now.
2 - we should open up as originally promised on 21 June, regardless of the government position
3 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when everyone over 18 who wants a vaccine can have one
4 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when adults are vaccinated
5 - we should end the lockdown and open things up when every person including adults and children are vaccinated
6 - I think some element of lockdown should continue indefinitely whenever the government says it's required, even if it means years waiting.

Thanks

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

Who is paying you to do this?

You appear to have missed out the option of opening up as per the route map, but ONLY if we genuinely meet the criteria at each stage. NOT just on set dates.

Nobody is paying me.

That option would be 6.

2

2 for the majority of restrictions. 1 for seeing family in your own home now.

Depends what you mean by 2.

We should end social distancing and stop wearing masks on 21 June - no.
We should keep to the roadmap and slowly open up businesses etc, and not extend the current lockdown - yes.

Otherwise, 1.

I'm between 3 & 4. Much as I'd love it to end I don't ever want another lockdown!! I'm very wary of them allowing mass foreign holidays this year - let's not import any more variants

None of those.

We should have effective public health policies such as quarantine, surveillance and TTI etc in place so we don't need lockdowns.

Like NZ, Australia, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

I'd be prepared to consider the covid strategies of any country that hasn't had 54,445 covid deaths already this year, like the U.K. has.

On a scale of Brazil to New Zealand I'd rather this country was closer to NZ's way of doing things. They don't have many lockdowns.

1
We never should have locked down

@PrincessNutNuts

None of those.

We should have effective public health policies such as quarantine, surveillance and TTI etc in place so we don't need lockdowns.

Like NZ, Australia, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

I'd be prepared to consider the covid strategies of any country that hasn't had 54,445 covid deaths already this year, like the U.K. has.

On a scale of Brazil to New Zealand I'd rather this country was closer to NZ's way of doing things. They don't have many lockdowns.

Well, first you'd have to count Covid deaths in the same way as NZ, Australia, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

They are all counting 'died from Covid'. Not 'died of old age, etc within 28 days of a positive PCR test, or chalked up as Covid on balance of probabilities without even being seen by the certifying GP'

Believing the UK death count as a accurate representation to compare the stituation here with other countries who are counting differently, when there is already substantial media reporting on the falsifying of death certificates and the inflation of the 'count' by using such a method to record deaths is just crazy...

Expect these numbers to be reassessed substantially once these figures are audited.

Oh dear @kellehi

Well, we have 111,000 excess deaths. NZ are in negative excess deaths.

(The U.K. was in negative excess deaths for the first 9 weeks of 2020.

And a doctor put covid on the death certificate of 148,125 dead British people.

That's good enough for me.

A fast domestic vaccination programme won't stop lots of variants from coming into existence or coming to UK. Staying "shut up" doesn't seem to stop a lot of variants from getting to most countries, and certainly not to countries with land borders like UK has. Plus most countries don't know about their own variants; 300k deaths in Mexico, any idea what Mexican variants there are? So lots of economic harm to try to stop variants happening here but won't stop variants from elsewhere, lots of jabs that only deal with some of the variants we know about now, and lots of uncertainty about how much UK will get to open up before the other variants come here anyway.

2, albeit with longer restrictions on international travel. And, barring any far more lethal new variants emerging, no more goalpost shifting.

Lockdowns are hugely damaging for society.

If you look at the graph of the first peak you'll see there are quite a lot of deaths that happened at the same time as the peak of the first wave which were not classified as covid but many of them probably were covid given their timing.

"Alzheimer's" deaths were up 83% that month. Were they? Or were they covid?

Covid is under-reported. Not over.

If the aim of lockdown is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, we have achieved that now. Especially now most of the people likely to be admitted to hospital with covid are now vaccinated.

1 but settling for 2. Enough is enough.

@PrincessNutNuts

Oh dear *@kellehi*

Well, we have 111,000 excess deaths. NZ are in negative excess deaths.

(The U.K. was in negative excess deaths for the first 9 weeks of 2020.

And a doctor put covid on the death certificate of 148,125 dead British people.

That's good enough for me.

Well, you'll have to make a note to check back after the event.

A UK medical certificate cause of death MCCD has a number of spaces for recording the cause of death.
1a - the disease or condition directly leading to the death.
1b - any other disease or condition leading to 1a.
1c - any other disease or condition leading to 1b.
2 - other significant conditions contributing to the death, but not related to the disease or condition that caused it.

A typical 'Covid' death certificate may be filled out as 1a - Vascular dementia, 1b - Cardiopulmonary disease, 1c - Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, 2 - Covid-19

The UK is counting that as a 'Covid death'. When most other countries are only counting Covid deaths as deaths where Covid 19 is written in 1a.

For reference, of the 50,335 deaths that the media was counting as having occurred in March to June 2020 as per the government numbers, the actual number with Covid-19 in 1a was 4476. That would be the number that most other countries are counting.

And that bit above is separate from the count of numbers of people who died of something else within 28 days of a positive test and don't have any Covid written on the death certificate whatsoever. So I think you'll find you are quite wrong with your claim that a doctor put covid on the death certificate of 148,125 dead British people.

Hope this has been interesting and informative for you.

1. But accept that date is the earliest we can expect as it's not set in stone.

let us hope we don't have hundreds of thousands off work through sickness and they then only receive SSP, rather than furlough payments.

Between 2 and 3.

2 but I still think for restaurants and pubs (table service) to open a month after none essential retail, places such as primark, is unfair.

Thank you @kellehi, but I'm going to stick with the Office for National Statistics' analysis.

*Well, you'll have to make a note to check back after the event.

A UK medical certificate cause of death MCCD has a number of spaces for recording the cause of death.
1a - the disease or condition directly leading to the death.
1b - any other disease or condition leading to 1a.
1c - any other disease or condition leading to 1b.
2 - other significant conditions contributing to the death, but not related to the disease or condition that caused it.

A typical 'Covid' death certificate may be filled out as 1a - Vascular dementia, 1b - Cardiopulmonary disease, 1c - Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, 2 - Covid-19

The UK is counting that as a 'Covid death'. When most other countries are only counting Covid deaths as deaths where Covid 19 is written in 1a.

For reference, of the 50,335 deaths that the media was counting as having occurred in March to June 2020 as per the government numbers, the actual number with Covid-19 in 1a was 4476. That would be the number that most other countries are counting.

And that bit above is separate from the count of numbers of people who died of something else within 28 days of a positive test and don't have any Covid written on the death certificate whatsoever. So I think you'll find you are quite wrong with your claim thata doctor put covid on the death certificate of 148,125 dead British people.

Hope this has been interesting and informative for you*

This from roof tops!

Not many people know this and something I am very vocal about.

When journalists like Piers Morgan rip into Boris over the highest death toll in Europe, if only he had the balls to respond this ^^ but then of course , that would be admitting Covid is not as serious and deadly, and we can't have that now can we

Over 100,000 deaths with Covid, not because of it.

1, and it should have happened weeks ago.

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

Over 100,000 deaths with Covid, not because of it.

Not according to the ONS.

Or the excess deaths.