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Average age of coronavirus fatalities

253 replies

SlugsTrout · 27/03/2021 13:53

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

That is all.

OP posts:
StarCat2020 · 28/03/2021 17:36

Even at the "low levels" of cases we have at the moment (5,000 a day positive test) how can normality resume when many school bubbles burst within the first week of full return?

DontFaffAboutWills · 28/03/2021 19:59

@Cornettoninja

I'd happily die for my grandchildren if it meant they would get to have the childhood and education they deserve

Good for you.

Back in the real world, lots of people dying in the same short time period (relatively short - allowing covid to spread could take months/years) means that there would be no healthcare available for your grandchildren. Are you happy with that?

I often see people saying they’d be happy not to receive any health care intervention but in real life that just doesn’t happen. People who feel like they’re dying seek help. People who come in to contact with people who they think might be dying seek help. I wouldn’t put my loved ones in the position of coping alone with me dying or having to deal with the removal of my corpse if I could possibly help it. It’s not a position that’s going to save anyone heartbreak or mental health trauma.

Covid doesn’t kill quickly in the majority of cases, if people just dropped dead with it we wouldn’t have half the problems we have.

I’ve been told I have to ‘accept death’ for months now (I do) but it’s clear most of these people have no clue what the reality of that actually means. I accept death absolutely, I don’t accept unnecessary suffering, particularly as the ones who suffer most are the ones left behind.

Good post.

So many people saying we need to learn to accept death as a fact of life etc. etc., but never much in the way of practical suggestions as to how that new acceptance would translate into a better way of dealing with covid.

Suppose we did decide as a society to make covid a disease that didn't get treated in people over 60 or 70, say? (Over 80 wouldn't be enough - they're not the main ICU occupiers now.) We 'learn to accept' their resulting deaths and everything's rosy. Except it wouldn't be - the actual practical effect of doing that would be awful. Ill people and their families who were covid positive would have to be identified and separated from people with other illnesses, and turned away from hospitals by security. People testing positive for covid in hospital would have to be sent home against their will. There'd be queues and fights outside hospitals. Oxygen cylinders would start to be stolen for ill people who were suddenly not entitled to treatment. People short of breath would get to go to hospital with asthma but not covid - so no one would test for covid - so what, they get tested at the door and sent away again? Why would they go quietly home rather than sitting outside and begging for treatment?

To protect the hospitals from too many covid patients while letting it spread amongst society, you would need to do something far more brutal than just tell care homes not to send any of their most elderly people in.

It's no good just 'learning to accept' more deaths from covid, unless you've got some way to arrange for those deaths happen in a way that isn't actually even more damaging to people and society than the covid restrictions and lockdowns. I've yet to see any suggestion for how this could work from the myriad people suggesting we just 'learn to accept' more deaths while letting so many people go back to normal that covid rates would shoot up again.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 28/03/2021 21:38

I don't think a 3 month lockdown for the elderly and clinically vulnerable is unreasonable.
My dh has been shielding throughout the periods where shielding was a thing. It is much stricter than lockdown but we did it to protect him and the NHS. It had huge implications for the whole family.
Either we had to socially distance in the home so no hugging your spouse or kids. Or all shield together which wasn't practical as I woh.
He still had to attend medical appointments He was even admitted to hospital once and the kids had to attend school for much of the time.
Thankfully we are through the worse of it and we have both now had 1st vaccines..
Lovely to know that as over 50s we were not worth the sacrifice.
I am sure our kids aged 9 to 17 don't feel that way

MinnieMous3 · 28/03/2021 21:40

Lovely to know that as over 50s we were not worth the sacrifice. I am sure our kids aged 9 to 17 don't feel that way

Well obviously not, because they’re your kids. You can’t put your own family first, and not expect others to do the same.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 28/03/2021 21:47

@endoflevelbaddy Ithink your projection for 2020 deaths is England only and your previous years UK.

Average age of coronavirus fatalities
Northernsoulgirl45 · 28/03/2021 22:03

@MinnieMous3 yes and they did make greater sacrifice than others. Not being able to hug their dad to protect him for example. Dd2s therapy stopped and her mental health is at an all time low too.
I fully appreciate lots of sacrifices have been made but I'm truly appalled that some on here think over 50s and ECV don't matter still.
I mean I have really mild asthma. Yet because of this and being over 50 it would be assumed by many that I am on my last legs and any infection would kill me. Ditto dh who is immunosupressed.

MinnieMous3 · 28/03/2021 22:06

[quote Northernsoulgirl45]@MinnieMous3 yes and they did make greater sacrifice than others. Not being able to hug their dad to protect him for example. Dd2s therapy stopped and her mental health is at an all time low too.
I fully appreciate lots of sacrifices have been made but I'm truly appalled that some on here think over 50s and ECV don't matter still.
I mean I have really mild asthma. Yet because of this and being over 50 it would be assumed by many that I am on my last legs and any infection would kill me. Ditto dh who is immunosupressed.[/quote]
Of course they matter but they’ve all been bloody vaccinated! What else are we supposed to be waiting for now?!

Northernsoulgirl45 · 28/03/2021 22:15

Yes and Isaid in my post that we are relieved dh in particular has been at least partially vaccinated. He will still WFH but of course I want lockdown to end. Trying to homeschool 2 SEN kids pushed me to breaking point and we need to get economy going again.

MrsHastingslikethebattle · 28/03/2021 22:57

Point is, the over 65s are the majority of Covid deaths and hospital admissions.

Now they are vaccinated, we shouldn't be in a f**king lockdown!

PrincessNutNuts · 28/03/2021 23:04

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

Point is, the over 65s are the majority of Covid deaths and hospital admissions.

Now they are vaccinated, we shouldn't be in a f**king lockdown!

They're not vaccinated.

A lot of them have had the first dose.

HedgeSparrows · 28/03/2021 23:11

It's like Logan's Run on MN sometimes.

twelly · 28/03/2021 23:35

One dose of the vaccine gives a high degree of protection. At what point do we say then that it is enough - we are doing huge damage to the young, the economy is ruined and the future is bleak.

PrincessNutNuts · 28/03/2021 23:36

@HedgeSparrows

It's like Logan's Run on MN sometimes.
It really is.
Sparrowcrane · 29/03/2021 08:24

Everyone's life matters and it's devastating when the people you love die regardless of age or circumstances. However, I do agree that the lockdown measures have been excessive in relation to the risks and stats. We are held in constant fear to comply whereas only a small % of the population has actually died of the virus. I do question the motives of the measures , the more I look into things the more worried I'm getting of where it's all going.

titchy · 29/03/2021 08:44

Sigh.... lockdown is being eased. Maybe some of you should read the news sometimes.

The first 9 groups aren't fully vaccinated. I won't get my second jab till June. We also need groups 10-12 vaxxed to limit the possibility of new strains which existing vaccines won't work on.

titchy · 29/03/2021 08:46

However, I do agree that the lockdown measures have been excessive in relation to the risks and stats.

So not enough people have died for you to think lockdown was worth it? Hmm How many more would have died had we not had any sort of lockdown?

Sparrowcrane · 29/03/2021 09:20

We have examples of countries where there have been no real lockdowns and distancing measures- death stats are not much different. If we want to prevent all deaths from covid then we should do the same for all other illnesses and risks of deaths but we know that this would be a fruitless waste of time at a huge cost to society. In return I can ask how many suicides, lost livelihoods, destroyed futures is enough to pay the price for deaths of the over 80"s?

MrsHastingslikethebattle · 29/03/2021 09:28

@titchy

Sigh.... lockdown is being eased. Maybe some of you should read the news sometimes.

The first 9 groups aren't fully vaccinated. I won't get my second jab till June. We also need groups 10-12 vaxxed to limit the possibility of new strains which existing vaccines won't work on.

There is absolutely no suggestion or evidence vaccines wont work on new strains. Studies have already shown which I can link if needs be, that the vaccines have showed high protection, still over 90% against the variants. Booster jabs are already in production.
Cornettoninja · 29/03/2021 09:31

@Sparrowcrane

Everyone's life matters and it's devastating when the people you love die regardless of age or circumstances. However, I do agree that the lockdown measures have been excessive in relation to the risks and stats. We are held in constant fear to comply whereas only a small % of the population has actually died of the virus. I do question the motives of the measures , the more I look into things the more worried I'm getting of where it's all going.
If your only concern is death from covid then I can see how you would think measures have been excessive.

Unfortunately deaths from covid aren’t the only consequence of covid. Hospital admissions start rising from 45+. The majority of hospital admissions will recover (I’m not even getting into long covid but it’s a reality that there are significant numbers left with long lasting damage) with medical support but without it they’re quite likely to either die or come close. See Brazil and Mexico for what happens when you can’t provide relatively simple medical support. The consequence of lots of hospital admissions means deaths from other things will rise. It’s not a case of covid being prioritised it’s a case of treating who turns up at the door first. The knock on effect is massive and unmanageable if left uncontrolled. @DontFaffAboutWills put it very clearly the kinds of choices we would face in those circumstances.

But then people don’t want to think through the consequences of what they think is a simple solution. Even our own government have had to back down from similar policies because they would have basically triggered a massive disaster that would have likely destroyed our infrastructure. Trying to regain control of a situation massively out of control would be nigh on impossible. It almost happened in January and imho could have been softened considerably by continuing the second lockdown for a few more weeks but the pressure to have a firm lifting date won out.

Imho two out of the three of our lockdowns have been because the governments hand was forced and there was no way to ignore how close we were to losing complete control.

With lockdowns have come a lot of people with time on their hands and political agendas have become blurred with pandemic responses. They can be unpicked but most (civilian and leadership) aren’t choosing to do that and there’s very little separation from what is an appropriate pandemic response and civil suppression diluting the cases on both sides of the argument because often the motivations aren’t absolutely in line with what is being claimed.

MrsHastingslikethebattle · 29/03/2021 09:31

Princess Nuts

'They are not vaccinated, a lot of them have had their first dose'.

The first dose offers high protection (hence why the government chose to go with giving everyone their first jab before waiting for the 2nd). The first doses over around 80% protection!

MrsHastingslikethebattle · 29/03/2021 09:39

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Study showing the overall death and hospital admission rates are declining even though cases are rising (probably due to the increased testing).

People love the doom and gloom of all this but won't have faith in the scientists and vaccines. Well i trust them to do their job.
We have vaccines with high efficiency rates, the mortality figure is shocking low to have the country locked up!

Cornettoninja · 29/03/2021 09:52

@Sparrowcrane

We have examples of countries where there have been no real lockdowns and distancing measures- death stats are not much different. If we want to prevent all deaths from covid then we should do the same for all other illnesses and risks of deaths but we know that this would be a fruitless waste of time at a huge cost to society. In return I can ask how many suicides, lost livelihoods, destroyed futures is enough to pay the price for deaths of the over 80"s?
Which countries are you thinking of?

Death/case stats are only as reliable as the people declaring them/resources available and there are lots of discrepancies being noted in yearly excess death figures as they’re being released. For example, on Saturday Mexico made a statement that their figures are off and their death toll is at least 100k higher than declared so far.

Other factors also need to be considered like population sizes, living conditions etc for fair comparisons.

titchy · 29/03/2021 10:00

There is absolutely no suggestion or evidence vaccines wont work on new strains.

Yes I know. But allow the virus to run riot in the under 50s now, could lead to a strain that the vaccine isn't effective against. The new vaccines have only been developed to cover the new strains that exist now. Viruses mutate. Lockdown and vaccines prevent that.