Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

993 replies

Baileysforchristmas · 24/03/2021 11:29

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
3asAbird · 28/03/2021 19:19

@LimitIsUp

Sorry if this has been covered - but with some filling and finishing of the Moderna jab taking place in the EU could it be blocked from getting to us?
I theory yes if our moderna is coming from Lonza in Switzerland then its bottled in Spain. Spain been quiet in jan they indicated they supported the ban then. Gibraltar vaccinated 1000 Spanish They like British tourism I hope they won't. Maybe our moderna is coming from states.

Pfizer they could block.
Az don't know if we have any orders or stock in European factories to block.

Plus blocking by itself doesn't mean they can steal redistribute and use without using article 122 which would be dangerous for EU economy.
I'm also sure Switzerland behind the scenes has warned EU don't mess with moderna.

UserEleventyNine · 28/03/2021 19:42

Pfizer they could block.

Did I read that we have enough Pfizer to cover second jabs? If so, it's not much of a threat.

My second dose of Pfizer is due around the end of April, but I'd be happy to volunteer to have AZ instead if necessary!

I hope we don't get into a tit for tat game of blocking supplies of Pfizer components to the EU - we shouldn't sink to their level. We could of course divert the supplies to other locations if Pfizer requested it. I assume conversations are being had with Pfizer to cover all eventualities.

MarshaBradyo · 28/03/2021 19:48

Pfizer they could block.

Just for listening to various MEPs etc I get the impression it’s very much AZ they want to get back at and in no way Pfizer.

They could but hopefully wanting to stay the right side of non-AZ pharma will help.

Not sure how much we’ll be relying on EU produced AZ though

Baileysforchristmas · 28/03/2021 19:48

Nobody knows how many vaccines the UK have as the government have been very secretive about it, I hope we have enough for 2nd doses as my parents are due now. Ursula seems to think we’ve had 20 million Pfizer so hopefully enough.

OP posts:
MRex · 28/03/2021 20:11

I think originally UK were supposed to get AZ from EU last year, but there were delays and UK only got 1 million. While it would be nice for vaccination to be sped up, the speed we are going at is largely based on UK supplies plus a boost of 5m from India's Serum Institute and 5m more from there next month. I suspect some in the EU have bought into their own hype that the UK is taking their AZ vaccines, when the UK government weren't actually expecting any.

The UK has some delay on the next 20m Pfizer, plus Moderna and Janssen are a little delayed - but those were all expected in the plan and we still won't go past July for first dose completion. It's Covax that the other AZ doses were intended for. Not great for those countries if they get blocked.

3asAbird · 28/03/2021 20:17

@Baileysforchristmas

Nobody knows how many vaccines the UK have as the government have been very secretive about it, I hope we have enough for 2nd doses as my parents are due now. Ursula seems to think we’ve had 20 million Pfizer so hopefully enough.
He was right to be secretative. All the eu know for sure is total amount ordered. They don't know how much we received although udvl claims 21million that she aware of. They probably by sound of it have no clue what's happening at halix Netherlands in terms if how much produced and where they sent it. Although the Italian raid article was interesting as mentioned a tip off that I assume came from studying az confidential client order books. Normally clients contact are kept private.. The eu seem so keen to know what everyone else is getting. We even said when they raided Italy can't be ours as we have none on order yet France still thinks its hidden uk doses. They don't know how much we got from India. So what we holding or how much pfizer or moderna is due on next order..

We know from raid in Belgium factory in jan was investigate delay and look at private order books.

Surely a private company and whatever country it does business with that my be us Canada or Australia are entitled to some sort of privacy?
Its like me going to neighbours house and looking at their bank statement or payslip.
Its intrusive that they have access to this and invasion of privacy.

www.biospace.com/article/european-commission-raids-astra-zeneca-s-belgian-vaccine-plant/

MRex · 28/03/2021 20:31

I was thinking actually it is a bit odd that the EU between the whole lot of them have no sources at all from the UK to confirm numbers. Impressive for UK security, possibly an additional advantage of having the army do logistics.

EasterIssland · 28/03/2021 20:36

@MissConductUS moderna is being bottled as well in Madrid
www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/moderna-inks-fill-finish-pact-spain-s-rovi-for-hundreds-millions-covid-19-shot-doses

MRex · 28/03/2021 20:43

I wonder if UK could fill-finish Moderna.

Baileysforchristmas · 28/03/2021 20:47

I’d love to know how many vaccines we have, I remember Boris telling Nicola Sturgeon and she threatened to tell the EU, she was threatened with treason if she did 😂

OP posts:
3asAbird · 28/03/2021 21:06

@Baileysforchristmas

I’d love to know how many vaccines we have, I remember Boris telling Nicola Sturgeon and she threatened to tell the EU, she was threatened with treason if she did 😂
metro.co.uk/2021/01/28/nicola-sturgeon-threatens-to-publish-uk-vaccine-supply-figures-amid-row-with-eu-13984311/

I can imagine her rowing in a Scottish accent like you tube Janet Godley Impression.
Maybe she can now see the dangers.

Mrex I guess we could ask them be bottled outside EU if our supply coming from Switzerland not the states.

MRex · 28/03/2021 21:10

Only 17m doses in a few batches, it'd have to be DIY or bust. Moderna can't be expected to manage it for such a tiny amount.

alreadytaken · 28/03/2021 21:19

Novavax is already producing vaccines in the uk, although I dont know whether they are filled and finished elsewhere, I hope not. At the moment the vaccine is not licensed and production is probably low, there will be more later in the year. They are not currently entering into a contract with the EU, citing raw material problems - but what vaccine company would want to contract with the EU right now, especially if you already have a large uk order to fill?

In addition new vaccine manufacturing factories are being created - it may make sense for Pfizer to move part of it's production here or AZ could produce extra vaccines here later in the year.

The EU might manage to delay the uk vaccine rollout a bit but doing so doesnt solve AZs production problems in the EU or make much of a dent in the EU vaccine shortages. They should be looking at what is causing the low yields in the EU factories and what they can do to help increase production. The UK will go on developing vaccine manufacturing here and later in the year would have the potential to sell vaccines to the EU.

Even if the UK rollout gets delayed a little we will have all the most at risk protected soon and more vaccines produced here for the autumn/winter.

I hope Oxford will reconsider its agreement with AZ and allow them to make profits on sale to the EU.

3asAbird · 28/03/2021 21:34

@MRex

Only 17m doses in a few batches, it'd have to be DIY or bust. Moderna can't be expected to manage it for such a tiny amount.
Its such a tiny amount and we initially only ordered 7 and added 10. Shame they can't deliver all at once. Its most expensive think 20 quid per shot.

Cant believe eu are angry because we got 1million az from eu apparently

Such small number.
I am sure they have had nearly 20 million az so far.

3asAbird · 28/03/2021 21:58

Gives British right wing tabloids press some news i guess.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1416141/EU-vaccine-news-Britons-EU-
AstraZeneca-Covid-19-Oxford-jab-Brussels

www.thesun.co.uk/news/14477444/eu-bad-for-business-covid-crisis-wont-be-solved/

Once the Netherlands plants get go ahead I guess serious rows begin.
My figures were right Europe has had 17 out of 30million doses so far.

UK vaccinated 30million today
So eu claim they sent us 21.
Not sure what India sent uk
Or how much we reduce.
If 2nd shots say were ring-fenced then ine would think we had 50milllion so far.

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-asks-for-certification-of-halix-vaccine-plant-in-netherlands/

DdraigGoch · 28/03/2021 22:36

In early 40s and my surgery not finished vaccinating group 6 yet.
Group 6 is quite a slow one to vaccinate, in many areas groups 7-9 are getting done faster even though they were started later. I presume that it is due to the complexity of identifying everyone rather than mail-merging letters to everyone in a given age bracket.

DdraigGoch · 28/03/2021 22:44

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@Motorina oh and raided an Italian factory of vaccines as they thought they were coming to the UK but were mainly for Brussels and poorer countries![/quote]
That was orchestrated by Thierry Breton (the EU's Internal Market Commissioner) as a distraction. They knew full well that there would be nothing to find, it was a publicity stunt. They just wanted to pour fuel onto the "UK stealing our vaccines" fire to deflect the blame from them. www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/03/28/emmanuel-macron-has-lost-covid-bet-political-head/

Because of their incompetence (and others, particularly Macron), Paris risks becoming the next Bergamo.

Motorina · 28/03/2021 22:53

I know it's politically and practically difficult, but we really need tighter border controls with France now. Here's hoping it's less bad than the trends are suggesting.

DdraigGoch · 28/03/2021 23:00

What's most worrying now is the prevalence of the South African variant in France. You know, the one which all of the vaccines are less effective against.

It'll cause a nightmare at the ports but the government is going to have to be bold with the red list.

UserEleventyNine · 28/03/2021 23:15

Lorry drivers, cabin crew, prison escorts and seasonal workers entering England from outside the UK will need to take a Covid-19 test within 48 hours of arrival, the government has said.
More detail in BBC report: link

notimagain · 29/03/2021 00:23

Some of you people really really need to have a deep deep look at yourselves and most especially the German expression "Schadenfreude"...because it's not a good look.

For those living in France the situation isn't unexpected (though it is unwelcome) and I'll admit isn't a bag of laughs... BTW I guess the fact the French diesel engine might finally being wound up and over 30Ok vaccinated Saturday alone wouldn't fit certain UK MSM agendas.

MissConductUS · 29/03/2021 01:03

I've previously posted editorials from the Wall Street Journal about the vaccination crisis in the EU and people seemed interested, so here's another one that ran this weekend, primarily about the political backlash that's coming within the EU. I found it interesting that the French have also tried to shift blame to the US, rather unconvincingly. I bolded that bit.

[[https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-covid-bill-is-coming-due-11616795722?mod=opinion_major_pos4
Europe’s Covid Bill Is Coming Due
EU leaders made unforced errors with lockdowns and vaccine debacles. Their parties may pay.]]

By Dominic Green
March 26, 2021 5:55 pm ET

Europe’s leaders have told citizens that they’re all in the Covid-19 crisis together. But in the U.K., roughly 40% of the population has received at least one Covid-19 shot. Across the water, only about 13% of the European Union’s citizens have received a jab. In France, that number is closer to 10%.

In Britain, case rates and hospitalizations are falling, and the rate of excess deaths from Covid has reached zero. But in Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned of an “exponential” rise in cases. Ms. Merkel floated an Easter lockdown, which she quickly walked back. Italy, where more than one million people over 80 haven’t been vaccinated, has entered another lockdown.

Paris and other major French cities are shut down. Critical-care hospital beds in the Paris region are full, according to Frederic Valletoux, head of France’s hospital network. Mr. Valletoux has reported “exploding” numbers and says that only lockdowns can prevent an “unprecedented violent shock” to France’s healthcare system.

Europe’s third wave will cost thousands of lives and billions of euros. Summer vacationers, essential to the economies of Southern Europe, may have to stay away for a second year. This will increase the gulf in competitiveness and debt between the eurozone’s rich north and poor south. Southern states could require another bailout, a scenario deeply unpopular with German voters, who go to the polls in national elections in September.

Europe’s elected leaders, French President Emmanuel Macron and Ms. Merkel in particular, are responsible for the tragedy of errors that has caused Europe’s vaccine fiasco. They and their parties are starting to pay the political price.

In mid-March regional elections, Merkel’s Christian Democrat Union had its worst-ever showing in two of its historical strongholds. In the southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg, which the CDU ruled for 58 years until 2011, Ms. Merkel’s party won only 23% of the vote. In Rhineland-Palatinate in the West, once the launchpad for the CDU’s Helmut Kohl, the party finished at 26%, far behind the center-left Social Democrats.

The CDU is sliding in national polls, too. The bungled vaccination program, corruption scandals and regional defeats all reopen the battle to succeed Ms. Merkel when she retires after the election. In January, the CDU’s membership elected Armin Laschet as party leader, but he will face a challenge from Markus Söder of the CDU’s Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union, which is less centrist than Ms. Merkel and Mr. Laschet. This isn’t the legacy Ms. Merkel, in office since 2005, had in mind.

In France, where presidential elections will be held in April 2022, polls show the populist Marine Le Pen beating Mr. Macron in the first round of voting. He is still predicted to defeat her in the head-to-head second round—the two-stage French system is designed to thwart nationalist radicals like Ms. Le Pen—but Mr. Macron’s second-round margin is shrinking toward the margin of error.

For two decades, France’s centrists have relied on the “republican front,” in which moderate voters of left and right unite against radical candidates. But that coalition is crumbling. In 2002 Jacques Chirac beat Jean-Marie Le Pen, Ms. Le Pen’s father, by the biggest margin in any French presidential election, 82% to 18%. In 2017, Mr. Macron beat Ms. Le Pen by 66% to 34%. Polls from early March predict 53% for Mr. Macron and 47% for Ms. Le Pen.

The errors that are reshaping EU electoral maps were avoidable. Mr. Macron and Ms. Merkel tried to turn a healthcare crisis into an opportunity to prove the superiority of Brussels’ technocracy. While Boris Johnson’s government in the U.K. spread its bets and ordered vaccines from multiple sources as quickly as possible, their counterparts across the English Channel gambled on two French vaccines, one from the pharmacological company Sanofi, the other from the Pasteur Institute, a research nonprofit.

Sanofi says it may have a vaccine by the end of the year at the earliest. In January the Pasteur Institute abandoned its main vaccine candidate. François Bayrou, an ally of Mr. Macron and France’s commissioner for long-term planning, blames the Americans: “It is not acceptable that our best researchers, the most brilliant of our researchers, are sucked up by the American system,” he said earlier this year.

At first, Mr. Macron and Ms. Merkel played down Britain’s success by disparaging the AstraZeneca vaccine’s efficiency. Mr. Macron claimed it was “quasi-ineffective” for those over 65, and Ms. Merkel said she wouldn’t take it as a 66-year-old—concerns belied by data from the U.K. Then the EU suspended use of the AstraZeneca shot under German pressure, due to unfounded concerns about blood clots.

Despite this, France and Germany blame their problems on Britain, which they claim withheld supplies of the AstraZeneca vaccine. Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, has called for impounding vaccines on EU territory. At an EU summit on Thursday, the commission endorsed limits on the EU export of vaccine materials to states with higher inoculation rates. And unlike the U.K. government, the EU is falling behind on its commitment to the United Nations program to vaccinate poorer nations.

Meanwhile, the EU’s supposedly unified response is turning into a free-for-all. Germany has secured a stash of 50 million Moderna shots. Hungary has broken ranks by approving and buying its own supply of the Russian-made Sputnik V vaccine. The prime minister of Slovakia has offered to resign after buying Russian vaccine supplies without the approval of his coalition partners.

The EU has turned the Covid crisis into an opportunity for Vladimir Putin to profit from vaccine diplomacy. Its mishandled response has undermined the implicit promise of technocracy—the surrender of liberty for security—and discredited the ruling centrists in France and Germany. Nations like Britain, Israel and Hungary have acted independently. The U.S. is rapidly vaccinating its population. As with its currency, the EU has consistently overpromised and underperformed. The EU won’t be a casualty of Covid-19. But it is dying a slow death of a thousand self-inflicted cuts.

Mr. Green is deputy U.S. editor of the Spectator.

Itsalonghaul · 29/03/2021 07:59

For those living in France the situation isn't unexpected (though it is unwelcome) and I'll admit isn't a bag of laughs

It was not a bag of laughs here either when we hit our peak and the ever kind and compassionate Macron decided to block all the ports stopping all food and medicine deliveries over christmas.

Do you think anyone here will ever forget the thousands of poor truckers stranded here for weeks missing their children at christmas with not as much as a loo to share between hundreds of them? Just so Macron could score brexit cheap shots. Or the shock waves of food running out - whilst we were simultaneously fighting a huge wave with the new variant you think that was fun? And life saving medicines.

My cousin was in hospital in ICU fighting for life, at just 42 with two small children, and every road around his here was gridlocked with lorries so the ambulance was delayed by over an hour and he almost died before he even managed to get to the ICU. Have you any idea of how nasty France has become towards us?

Now Macron thinks he is God's answer to Christopher Whitty and has ignored the entire French science community, not to mention the desperate pleas from those that work in ICU to lockdown now, since January and he is still refusing!

This is NOT about the people of France, they have just ended up human fodder for their leader's ambitions, this is NOT about our wish to see anyone suffer - it is about time you looked at the kind of man running your country. He is fucking disgrace and he, and he alone is responsible for all of this!

He even puts Trump in the shade, and that is saying something. Macron is now a scorned, egotistical narcissist with an axe to grind, and a dangerous one at that, and he is about to kill thousands of his own people with his incompetence notimagain

If you want to point fingers start looking at your own failing government, not us!

Radyward · 29/03/2021 08:38

This stunning vaccine roll out plus the shambles in the EU only makes THe UK even more attractive to mulri nationals. Like eu creaking bureaucracy has to be off putting to potential future investment.Boris is playing an absolute blinder with the roll out and diplomatically - cant believe im saying that. Uk stronger going from strength to strength as opposed to France and Germany. The losers their poor populations. Macron appears to have not a fiddlers of respect or care for his people. He is like a jumped up spoiled brat -fgs its beyond ridiculous. All the AZ controversy is deflection tactics. The AZ CEO Pascal soriot is now flying to europe from his base in australia . Wonder what thats abour really. He has been there the whole time AZ has been trashed .

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/03/2021 08:41

@notimagain

Some of you people really really need to have a deep deep look at yourselves and most especially the German expression "Schadenfreude"...because it's not a good look.

For those living in France the situation isn't unexpected (though it is unwelcome) and I'll admit isn't a bag of laughs... BTW I guess the fact the French diesel engine might finally being wound up and over 30Ok vaccinated Saturday alone wouldn't fit certain UK MSM agendas.

Again, it's not the population many here are railing against. Fuck knows we all want everone, everywhere to get a jab, it's the only way we can regain any sense of normality!

And don't forget just how much ongoing support the UK has working in the factories that still don't process vaccines efficiently!

It's various leaders that are being railed against. However you look at it Macron is not behaving in a way that instils any confidence at all!