EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

[Baileysforchristmas]

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

If AZ aren't benefiting at all I wonder why they wouldn't make the vaccine available to be manufactured as a generic drug? I'm sure I read somewhere that the vaccine had boosted their share price last year (though its def gone down a bit over recent weeks)

@TheMancunianCandidate

If AZ aren't benefiting at all I wonder why they wouldn't make the vaccine available to be manufactured as a generic drug? I'm sure I read somewhere that the vaccine had boosted their share price last year (though its def gone down a bit over recent weeks)

Hopefully there will be benefit after all this

But I doubt they’ll do at cost again

Who loses out then?

Hugo Gye reporting the UK have passed the EU average on second doses given per head of population.

The UK figures won't update on world in data until tomorrow, so that isn't yet visible on their graphs, but the figures are known.

twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1375451963643600900

If AZ aren't benefiting at all I wonder why they wouldn't make the vaccine available to be manufactured as a generic drug?

Is it up to AZ? Do they own the intellectual property, or are they just manufacturing under licence?

[quote Guinan]@Wakeupin2022
Az were over ambitious but even then the EU should have been asking questions and realising it wasn't really that feasible.

The EU – in good faith – signed a contract with AZ naming four production plants, including two in the UK. Now these two plants are used exclusively to supply the UK because allegedly there was a previous and/or better contract.
So basically AZ offered a contract under false pretenses and you are saying it's the EU's fault for not realising? (And UK politicians are gloating about it while at the same time accusing the EU of vaccine nationalism.)
If this is how much contracts involving the UK are worth, I am sure the EU will do better next time and not try to buy anything from the UK again. Might seem better for you right now, but seems a very poor long-term economic strategy.[/quote]
Even if this were true (and, as has been pointed out repeatedly, it's not) the contract which has been signed is between the EU and AZ AB.

AZ AB is a Swedish company headquartered in Stockholm.

This is not in any way a contract involving the UK. The UK is not a signatory to this contract. Neither of the parties to the contract are UK based or owned. The contract is governed by Belgian Law. The UK is therefore no more responsible for AZ AB's compliance with the contract it signed than it is for the EU's compliance. It is, quite simply, nothing to do with the UK.

So why should this impact on the reputation of the UK?

@NewYearNewTwatName

from the guardian link above

Sir John Bell, the Oxford University professor who helped drive the vaccine’s development, suggested morale at AstraZeneca is plummeting and that it had never received due credit for its decision to take no profit. Others are making fortunes Moderna expects $18bn in revenue this year from the vaccine and Pfizer/BioNTech $15bn

and yet AZ are painted as some nasty money grabbing shady organisation? for not making a profit so all countries can afford it and making a vaccine that is easy to manufacture and distributed?

It is a disgrace

@Baileysforchristmas

It does look like the EU at the moment are only going to block AZ vaccines leaving Europe if that is the case our vaccine rollout won’t be effected to much but will effect the European countries hugely, pharmaceutical companies will be leaving there droves after this.

ASTRAZENECA LATEST: On Friday, Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton stated that the AstraZeneca vaccines would not leave the bloc until the company’s delivery commitments would be fulfilled.

“Of course, AstraZeneca has been an issue … We had a problem with this company,” Breton said. “We have the tools and will make sure everything stays in Europe until the company will come back to its commitments.”

That's a relief; though we've left the EU, we're still in Europe.

[quote Motorina]Hugo Gye reporting the UK have passed the EU average on second doses given per head of population.

The UK figures won't update on world in data until tomorrow, so that isn't yet visible on their graphs, but the figures are known.

twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1375451963643600900[/quote]
Made me smile'; hasn't Macron recently stated that Britain's lousy (again) because it hasn't done many 'proper' double doses, compared to France/ the EU?

@Guinan The EU – in good faith – signed a contract with AZ naming four production plants, including two in the UK. Now these two plants are used exclusively to supply the UK because allegedly there was a previous and/or better contract.

So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?

@UserEleventyNine

If AZ aren't benefiting at all I wonder why they wouldn't make the vaccine available to be manufactured as a generic drug?

Is it up to AZ? Do they own the intellectual property, or are they just manufacturing under licence?

It would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? I had thought AZ must hold the IP but maybe not? If not them, then who? Not sure. AZ have never been involved in vaccine manufacture before have they - I imagine they feel they've had their fingers burned, though I also think it is reasonably clear that they've messed up by overpromising.

[quote FleeingBlue]**@Guinan* The EU – in good faith – signed a contract with AZ naming four production plants, including two in the UK. Now these two plants are used exclusively to supply the UK because allegedly there was a previous and/or better contract.*

So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?[/quote]
So the EU were happy for us to have no vaccines but aren't happy for theirs to be limited

they've messed up by overpromising.

If EU factories are not up and running or slow at production where does the fault lie?

As U.K. have produced well

@FleeingBlue
So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?

Of course nobody believed that, don't be ridiculous. Pfizer manages to deliver vaccines to both the UK and the EU from Belgium, so why can't AZ in the UK do the same?

@MarshaBradyo

they've messed up by overpromising.

If EU factories are not up and running or slow at production where does the fault lie?

As U.K. have produced well

Logically Dutch firm halix and French firm norosap who partnered with az to make in Europe must shoulder some blame.

[quote Guinan]@FleeingBlue
So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?

Of course nobody believed that, don't be ridiculous. Pfizer manages to deliver vaccines to both the UK and the EU from Belgium, so why can't AZ in the UK do the same?[/quote]
The UK plants were only designed to provide sufficient volume to supply the UK, we have not, up until now, had a vaccine producing industry for export.

As for as production for the EU goes, perhaps Pfizer are using some of their profits to solve volume issues, but not only do AZ not have any profits to throw at a problem, they have to provide everything on a reduced amount as the penny pinching EU haggled down the price. If you want an at-cost vaccine at a lower cost then you have to accept that the manufacturer has very limited options if there is a problem.

"If you want an at-cost vaccine at a lower cost then you have to accept that the manufacturer has very limited options if there is a problem."

That isn't how contracts work.

Guinan

Literally what would be the point?

We send 2 across to get too back
Really if anything it should be the UK pissed off at AZ if they did sell capacity in their factory which was only ever intended to supply local market initially.

I do think, however the EU are being very and in mean very economical with the truth re contract negotiations.

[quote Guinan]@FleeingBlue
So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?

Of course nobody believed that, don't be ridiculous. Pfizer manages to deliver vaccines to both the UK and the EU from Belgium, so why can't AZ in the UK do the same?[/quote]
I'm quite sure they could. The question is, do they have a contractual responsibility to do so?

Given that the EU's contract is with AZ AB, and the UK manufacturing sites are owned/contracted by AZ UK, then it's far from clear to me that they do.

@TheMancunianCandidate

"If you want an at-cost vaccine at a lower cost then you have to accept that the manufacturer has very limited options if there is a problem."

That isn't how contracts work.

How does the production side work then?

Do you acknowledge EU production is a big issue?

Even MEPs admit it has put them back one to two months.

@TheMancunianCandidate

"If you want an at-cost vaccine at a lower cost then you have to accept that the manufacturer has very limited options if there is a problem."

That isn't how contracts work.

Hasn't it been said they signed a best efforts contract? So it would seem that it may well be how this contract works.

[quote Guinan]@FleeingBlue
So what you are saying is that the EU - in good faith - signed a contract with AZ that the EU believed would effectively give the UK zero access to any AZ vaccine doses produced in the UK until all EU delivery targets had been met?

Of course nobody believed that, don't be ridiculous. Pfizer manages to deliver vaccines to both the UK and the EU from Belgium, so why can't AZ in the UK do the same?[/quote]
When the EMA gave approval for AZ and it was apparent that just like the UK, the EU would only get a small fraction of the doses first promised, UVdL demanded that the whole of its contract be met from the UK production until the EU quota had been met. UVdL believed that the EU contract with AZ AB trumped any contract with AZ UK.

The UK makes 2M doses per week at maximum production. How many weeks/months would it take to make up the shortfall? How many weeks would the UK be expected to be without supply? How is this not giving the UK zero access to its vaccine?

The EU has its own supply of AZ - why does it need to take from the UK?

I doubt any of us here have seen the contracts, but as has been widely reported in the press both the EU and the UK terms are on best efforts basis.
The price paid under a contract is irrelevant, really - if AZ have undertaken to deliver/make best efforts then they must do so, regardless of whether they now think it was a bad bargain.
Marsha it does appear EU production is an issue, yes. That is one reason why I think AZ have overstretched themselves esp given lack of previous experience in manufacture of vaccines. But does the EU contract require delivery solely from EU facilities? I dont know - do you?

@TheMancunianCandidate

If AZ aren't benefiting at all I wonder why they wouldn't make the vaccine available to be manufactured as a generic drug? I'm sure I read somewhere that the vaccine had boosted their share price last year (though its def gone down a bit over recent weeks)

1. AZ do not own the IP, Oxford has owned it since 2011 and are entitled to use this for other things in future if desired. Just the same as the owners of mRNA technologies are entitled to use their IP for other things in future, not just give it away.
2. Making vaccines is very hard. Poor quality implementations that don't work will destroy the vaccine's reputation and leave people unprotected, or worse bring in new safety issues. Anyone involved in manufacture needs to be properly trained and there are limited people who can do that while they're still scaling up many other sites with issues, such as the ones in the EU.

That's why.

On a different note, I listened to the daily NYT podcast about vaccines, and the speakers suggested that the US would probably never use or even approve their supply of AZ vaccine. They just won't need to as they have enough Moderna/J&J/Pfizer (and have banned ALL exports). So perhaps this extra AZ will come onto the market? Dunno.

Interesting, thanks MRex
So is there any existing facility that is up and running and could be licensed by Oxford? Or do AZ have an exclusive licence? I guess not if the Indian institute is also manufacturing?