EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

[Baileysforchristmas]

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

@TheMancunianCandidate

On a different note, I listened to the daily NYT podcast about vaccines, and the speakers suggested that the US would probably never use or even approve their supply of AZ vaccine. They just won't need to as they have enough Moderna/J&J/Pfizer (and have banned ALL exports). So perhaps this extra AZ will come onto the market? Dunno.

You wonder why (well I do know why) the EU are solely attacking the UK.

Even if we were guilty of vaccine nationalism, it is literally max 2 million a week.

Compare that to the output if the US.

The EU though put all their efforts into destroying AZ and blaming the UK and threatening to block exports.

When we literally make no difference to their programme.

@TheMancunianCandidate

I doubt any of us here have seen the contracts, but as has been widely reported in the press both the EU and the UK terms are on best efforts basis. The price paid under a contract is irrelevant, really - if AZ have undertaken to deliver/make best efforts then they must do so, regardless of whether they now think it was a bad bargain. Marsha it does appear EU production is an issue, yes. That is one reason why I think AZ have overstretched themselves esp given lack of previous experience in manufacture of vaccines. But does the EU contract require delivery solely from EU facilities? I dont know - do you?

I thought it was first 300m from EU factories then 100m from U.K.

So yes the EU production needs to be up and running before U.K. stock can be supplied.

Why do you blame AZ when it could be a regulatory or other with EU factory?

We’d need to see where responsibility lies for production schedule. As MEP admitted it was their failure to understand how long production would take. UvdL also said the same.

The U.K. teams knew production was volatile and took three months to set up. Why didn’t the EU teams?

@TheMancunianCandidate

On a different note, I listened to the daily NYT podcast about vaccines, and the speakers suggested that the US would probably never use or even approve their supply of AZ vaccine. They just won't need to as they have enough Moderna/J&J/Pfizer (and have banned ALL exports). So perhaps this extra AZ will come onto the market? Dunno.

I’d say it’s likely to go to Canada / Mexico first

I doubt any of us here have seen the contracts
Well no, many of us have and posted links to the redacted versions available. Try reading this and the previous AZ thread we were all on if you'd like to read details including links to analysis from various lawyers. There is a reason why I've specifically mentioned clauses 5.1 and 5.4, it's because we've all read them!

None of us as far as I know have seen the manufacturing license terms Oxford signed with AstraZeneca that both precede and supersede contracts for doses. We know from Matt Hancock statements that he got involved to say no to Merck and tie in initial doses for the UK.

I think "blame" is the wrong word - let's just say I think AZ underestimated the potential complexities in an area they are not familiar with
Pascal Soriot seems like a bit of a loose cannon to me.

@TheMancunianCandidate

I think "blame" is the wrong word - let's just say I think AZ underestimated the potential complexities in an area they are not familiar with Pascal Soriot seems like a bit of a loose cannon to me.

I disagree

It was the EC who misunderstood the complexities of production

They have said as much

@TheMancunianCandidate

Interesting, thanks MRex So is there any existing facility that is up and running and could be licensed by Oxford? Or do AZ have an exclusive licence? I guess not if the Indian institute is also manufacturing?

AstraZeneca got the Serum Institute up and running as part of their Covax responsibilities. They've got lots of places up and running. Absurdly it's in the contract that the EC will use "best reasonable efforts" to help if they are struggling to meet dose quantities. Do you think the EC look like they're doing that?

the speakers suggested that the US would probably never use or even approve their supply of AZ vaccine. So perhaps this extra AZ will come onto the market?

I'd hope the contract doesn't allow for it to be sold on. Donate it to CoVax, absolutely, if they don't want it, but they need to do it before it expires.

Here you go

A start of vaccination does not mean a seamless flow of vaccine doses coming from the industry,” the European Commission president said in an interview with 10 European news organizations Thursday, including POLITICO. “This is a bitter learning part, and this we certainly have underestimated.”

They'll donate it, it's the USA, they actually already gave a lot to Covax. It's just that they'd rather give it to their neighbours first. Fair enough, Mexico really really needs doses.

Yes, I've read the redacted contract...I meant none of us have seen the full version. Construing redacted contracts is not straightforward as I am sure you would agree.I thought 5.4 was the clause that allowed them to use non-EU facilities?

Yes, specifically for the 100m Additional Doses. Also doesn't mandate supply must come from there, only that is an option for AZ.

A start of vaccination does not mean a seamless flow of vaccine doses coming from the industry,” the European Commission president said in an interview with 10 European news organizations Thursday. “This is a bitter learning part, and this we certainly have underestimated.”

But here we've been repeatedly told, from the start, that supplies would be 'lumpy'. How can the EU not have known this?

@Guinan - the UK does export to the EU by supplying vital components that allow production of the Pfizer vaccine.

Why do the EU ignore the fact that Pfizer and Moderna both 'overpromised' vaccines, choosing to only single out AZ?

@UserEleventyNine

A start of vaccination does not mean a seamless flow of vaccine doses coming from the industry,” the European Commission president said in an interview with 10 European news organizations Thursday. “This is a bitter learning part, and this we certainly have underestimated.”

But here we've been repeatedly told, from the start, that supplies would be 'lumpy'. How can the EU not have known this?

I think it’s key as pp talks about AZ over promising and being inexperienced

But to me it appears the responsibility for this slowness lies with the EC

I have family in France. One family member has just had an appointment with his doctor to discuss having a Covid vaccine. He then has a separate appointment for the vaccine itself and, even though he has been told that he is having AZ, he will receive the second dose three weeks later, despite there being good evidence to support a longer gap between the first and second doses. Meanwhile, there are over 40K Covid cases in France today and more mud slinging against the U.K. by French politicians. Clearly this is to deflect that the vaccine roll out in France is a complete mess. Why would anyone support what is going in France (and other EU countries). People are dying. The UK’s approach is working. The WHO have actually said that today.

I’ve seen today that the uk is thinking about adding some European countries to the red list ... think someone aint going to be happy
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/26/uk-government-in-talks-over-expanding-covid-travel-red-list

I'm so glad I found this thread. I was following the first one then missed the transition to this one.

Approval of the new manufacturing sites in Europe will be key to diffusing the situation, although it took way too long. Remarkably, vaccine production in the US has almost tripled for March compared to February (48m doses to 132m) so it won't be long before we have surplus to export.

While things are certainly looking better, nothing will wash away the stain of the EU's miserable performance in this emergency. So many unnecessary deaths and so much economic damage can't be papered over by blaming others.

Goodness, I can't believe this is still rumbling on. I was on those threads where for a week it was an EU shitshow and article 16 was going to be triggered etc etc and it seems as if the EU has learnt absolutely nothing from that.

Poor AZ, if I knew how to I'd be buying up their shares to show support.

@BunsyGirl

I have family in France. One family member has just had an appointment with his doctor to discuss having a Covid vaccine. He then has a separate appointment for the vaccine itself and, even though he has been told that he is having AZ, he will receive the second dose three weeks later, despite there being good evidence to support a longer gap between the first and second doses. Meanwhile, there are over 40K Covid cases in France today and more mud slinging against the U.K. by French politicians. Clearly this is to deflect that the vaccine roll out in France is a complete mess. Why would anyone support what is going in France (and other EU countries). People are dying. The UK’s approach is working. The WHO have actually said that today.

Better than my neighbour's GP who advised his healthy late 70s aunt (French in south of France) that she shouldn't have a vaccine. Any vaccine, not just AZ. So she left; when they've tried discussing it with her she says no because the GP said she shouldn't. Where's the pulling-hair-out emoji?

If I was CEO of AZ I'd be very tempted close my production in the EU and tell them to go fuck themselves. They've done nothing but undermine this vaccine from the get go. Frankly the EU leaders don't deserve an 'at cost' option - let them fork out the full whack for Pfizer and have to justify that to their citizens.

@MRex It’s a complete disgrace as is anyone on this thread who defends what is happening in the EU and puts the blame on the U.K. The U.K. made mistakes itself. Many of those mistakes were made at the beginning when this was all new. The EU is still making major mistakes now, more than 12 months on. Why were mass vaccination centres not up and running two months ago as they were in the U.K?! My family member in France is only getting the vaccine because he has been very ill for 12 months. I have an older relative in France who seems to be a long way off getting a vaccine.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

If I was CEO of AZ I'd be very tempted close my production in the EU and tell them to go fuck themselves. They've done nothing but undermine this vaccine from the get go. Frankly the EU leaders don't deserve an 'at cost' option - let them fork out the full whack for Pfizer and have to justify that to their citizens.

I don’t think they would mind paying the extra, but it would mean they would have an even longer wait.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

If I was CEO of AZ I'd be very tempted close my production in the EU and tell them to go fuck themselves. They've done nothing but undermine this vaccine from the get go. Frankly the EU leaders don't deserve an 'at cost' option - let them fork out the full whack for Pfizer and have to justify that to their citizens.

I said it on the last thread. If it were me then I'd have the lawyers get the company out of the contract entirely and on the same day offer a very similar contract to every country that selected doses but with a new schedule and an addition for the extra costs they've caused plus covering the set-up fees (both amounts paid by EC and amounts not yet paid). I would allow them to drop out, or to sign up again as individual purchasers, and to add doses at the end of the schedule (to be incorporated where any country dropped out). I might ask Oxford for a license dispensation to be able to charge France, Germany and Italy 5* the going rate, they clearly only respect companies making profit.

The sad thing is that I don't think they even really want it. They just want us not to have it. The leaders of the EU seem to be utterly morally bankrupt. Who dissuades their people from having a vaccine in a pandemic?