EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

[Baileysforchristmas]

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

The data is the death rate Star and the hospital admission. That is the main measure as to whether the vaccines are making a difference, and if the policy has worked.

We can see from the latest stats that both the hospital admissions and death rate is plummeting. Even with the return to school, most people are working outside of retail, beauty and hospitality. So it is showing us clearly that the vaccines are now taking affect.

We have plateaued comfortably in terms of infection rate, and the admission rate to the hospitals has really fallen in real time. In a few months we will be down to very very low numbers.

I agree with extending the gap to vaccinate more people but I don't agree with leaving it 12 weeks.

Devil's Advocate here but

What would happen if there was a month delay on production at Puurs?

star you probably would not be feeling remotely worried about it if the EU were not threatening to cut off the supply. Your insecurity ahout the vaccines is totally understandable, but that doesn't make the policy wrong.
The 12 weeks has been proved to be optimal

The data is the death rate Star and the hospital admission. That is the main measure as to whether the vaccines are making a difference, and if the policy has worked
What about the effect of lockdown though?

There are two variables that could be making the difference.

Realistically it is probably a combination of both.

@MRex

Personally I think this refusal to export vaccines at all will be sorted out. I'm angry though that they didn't set up earlier so there are more vaccines in the world to end this sooner. I'm angry at the time and effort they are wasting for so many critical response companies and governments (covax nations included) in risk analysing whatever the fuck the EU will do next, instead of improving the pandemic response. I'm angry at them trashing the reputations of pharmaceutical firms and creating vaccine take-up issues. I'm angry that they will lose European jobs over this in future, however hopeful that the UK will get some there will be net losses. I'm angry that they have increased Russia and China's influence through this idiocy. I think this crisis will be sorted out, but I also think a lot of damage has been done that can't be easily undone.

You have perfectly summed up how I’m feeling at the moment. I’m generally a very chilled person, it’s quite an odd feeling for me to have so much anger and disappointment.

@Itsalonghaul

marsha I think even at this most unreasonable, Pjizer will be able to supply the second dose for people that have already had the first.

The UK have more or less switched entirely to AZ now, so it should not be too difficult to secure the last batches needed to complete the PJizer roll out. Of course this is extremely damaging for Pjizer as well, who must be extremely adverse to not being able to supply the second doses for 90 years old grannies, and therefore putting their lives at risk!
So I think that is unlikely even in the current climate.

In terms of delays here, we do have production here and we are steaming through through the numbers. A small delay is possible, but we have many other vaccines coming on board, so I am personally not worried about a big delay to the roll out.

It would be better if the EU were vaccinating properly in the same way we are, to better protect the continent from mutations, but this was always going to be such a tall order given the sheer population numbers - hence the travel restrictions. EU likes to think it is on par with the US, but they could never hope to vaccinate 100 million in 90 days they simply do not have the infrastructure.

Long I meant to say thanks for this

It helped talked me down a bit

I don’t suppose you’ve heard anything about Moderna supply?

Your insecurity ahout the vaccines is totally understandable, but that doesn't make the policy wrong
I am not at all bothered about when I get the vaccine personally.

I will have it when offered but I am in no hurry.

It would be funny if it wasn’t such a serious situation. Apologies it’s from the DM, but basically Macron is praising the US efforts - and therefore, by omission, confirming his ire at the UK for our vaccine efforts. He’s a prize twat for sure!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9401147/Macron-delivers-humiliating-vaccine-mea-culpa-amid-EU-summit.html

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I think its a Wales only policy - I'm in ABUHB, and DM had her second dose of Pfizer over a month ago - 5 weeks after her first dose. Everyone I know who's had Pfizer has received their second dose over the past couple of weeks.

ABUHB posted this on facebook on 15th March:

" We have already given 58,750 second doses of Pfizer vaccine. Where supply is adequate, we are looking to bring the interval for Pfizer vaccines forward from 11-12 weeks. We are aiming to administer the Pfizer second doses to all those who received their first vaccine between December 7th and February 21st by the end of March"

They are still saying 11-12 weeks for AZ, but they seem to be aiming for a maximum of a 5-6 week gap for Pfizer.

aiming for a maximum of a 5-6 week gap for Pfizer
In line with Pfizer's recommendations.

The lockdown will be having an affect, but one of the biggest drivers and mixing is schools, and although we have seen a small increase in R, we have not seen mass or an increase in infections, death rates, hospital admissions.

Sorry didn't explain very well!

It seems that ABUHB may have switched to using AZ for 1st doses, and using Pfizer supplies to do 2nd doses - with a 5-6 week maximum gap.

ABUHB haven't started the second doses of AZ yet - on Facebook they are saying the 2nd dose is not due yet, but anyone who's had Pfizer should contact them if they haven't been offered a second dose, so it seems they are prioritising the 2nd dose of Pfizer while they have supplies available.

Is ABUHB your hospital trust?

marsha in a few weeks for Moderna. April was the date given. I know we live in such uncertain times, not made any easier by the actions of some other countries. The pressure we are feeling now is coming from here, we are leaving lockdown after all of this time, our vaccine programme is going brilliantly. The pressure we feel is from Europe, because they are bracing for the next wave, one that is going to be pretty savage if the UK was anything to go by and they are largely unprotected.

I think we need separate what we need to be worried about, and what they need to be worried about because we are poles apart.

This is their problem, that they are trying to make our problem if that makes any sense. Come the summer, the vaccines will be flowing more freely, and the EU will be the over the worst. Things won't look so bad then. I am focusing on the good stuff personally, I find it helps. Next weekend this starts to draw to a close for us, and good times are coming for all of us.

[quote Furries]It would be funny if it wasn’t such a serious situation. Apologies it’s from the DM, but basically Macron is praising the US efforts - and therefore, by omission, confirming his ire at the UK for our vaccine efforts. He’s a prize twat for sure!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9401147/Macron-delivers-humiliating-vaccine-mea-culpa-amid-EU-summit.html[/quote]
So have the EU determined the vaccines or least some of them are ours to block.
I just can't see them sending the az.
I don't think they dare block the pfizer.
The moderna is meant to arrive soon.

Boris did say any blocks to the UK would be viewed as hostile act.
Regardless of state the made last night I fail to see what's changed.

I thought India was able give us 5million according to do yesterday.
Macron is sore loser and a twat but matt Hancock a twat gloating like a child at this time all because he watched the film contagion and saw the light.
Got to chuckle usa refusing export but let's give them praise.

I think with poor old junker just wants enjoy his retirement the shit show is udvl responsibility.,
Hes had enough of farrage hurling abuse at him.
He probably realises the small pathetic little island macron thinks we are is more trouble than its worth .
He knows we scrappy and despite our size have some clout.
Better to keep enemies closer.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-vaccine-strategy-hancock-contagion-movie-b1796923.html

@deliciouschilli I wonder if they might allow her to have AZ as 2nd dose under the circs? I know some very vulnerable children under 16 have been vaccinated.

Yes, its Anueran Bevan. They've only done 300k vaccinations - so if approx 60k of those are second doses, that means they've given second doses to around 25%. I wonder how many of the 180k who've only had 1st dose have had AZ?

One thing I've noticed, is that originally it seemed that the mass vaccination centres were giving Pfizer and the GPs were doing AZ, but over the last couple of weeks, I've noticed people having AZ done at the centres.

Two friends who were done in Cardiff (so different Health Board) had AZ last week too, so I'm wondering if Welsh policy has shifted to AZ for 1st doses, and keeping Pfizer stocks for 2nd doses.

matt Hancock a twat gloating like a child at this time
He reminds me of this twatty kid from school who used to be allowed to use the computer room at lunchtime.

They could be brothers

All hospitals seem to be acronyms now.

[quote EveLe]@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously I think its a Wales only policy - I'm in ABUHB, and DM had her second dose of Pfizer over a month ago - 5 weeks after her first dose. Everyone I know who's had Pfizer has received their second dose over the past couple of weeks.

ABUHB posted this on facebook on 15th March:

" We have already given 58,750 second doses of Pfizer vaccine. Where supply is adequate, we are looking to bring the interval for Pfizer vaccines forward from 11-12 weeks. We are aiming to administer the Pfizer second doses to all those who received their first vaccine between December 7th and February 21st by the end of March"

They are still saying 11-12 weeks for AZ, but they seem to be aiming for a maximum of a 5-6 week gap for Pfizer.[/quote]
Anurin bevan health board?
Granted its huge .
Both my parents 70 _80
60 _70
Live different towns
Step dad 50s been done

All have been az dad seems think not that much pfizer was used in Wales.
Maybe in more rural areas if south and mid Wales az was easier option.

Dad due his 2nd dose in 2 weeks time so 10 weeks ago he had his.
My mam had her 2 weeks ago.

@StarCat2020 - it's quite usual with vaccines to leave long periods before boosters, the only risk being immunity waning in that period. The single dose provides protection, see here for the evidence: post.parliament.uk/changing-the-uk-covid-19-vaccine-dosing-schedule/. The booster makes it last longer and usually improves the protection by a bit. That doesn't mean anyone is at risk and dosing schedules often vary e.g. In the UK a toddler gets MMR at 12 months and booster at 3yrs 4 months (roughly, maybe a few months late but nobody cares) but in the US that same booster is given at age 4-6.

In a statement the British Society for Immunology said (www.immunology.org/policy-and-public-affairs/briefings-and-position-statements/COVID-19-vaccine-dosing-schedules), “Most immunologists would agree that delaying a second ‘booster’ dose of a protein antigen vaccine (such as the two approved covid-19 vaccines) by eight weeks would be unlikely to have a negative effect on the overall immune response post-boost. We also would not expect any specific safety issues to arise for the individual due to delaying the second dose, other than an increased potential risk of disease during the extended period due to lowered protection.”
www.immunology.org/news/bsi-response-pre-print-the-dosing-schedule-for-the-astrazenecaoxford-covid-19-vaccine

Are the EU really going to face the headlines and news bulletins that they are going to kill children by withholding vaccines?

Are they actually happy to be responsible for the deaths of the CEV group because they are seizing vaccines at ports?

How are they going to explain to their citizens who have already been through enough, no more pjizer will be available as the Yorkshire plant has stopped supplying raw materials?

@MRex
I don't disagree with anything you have posted at all.

We have a feeling that the vaccine nationalism is really on the other side of the Channel,” Mr Breton told the Financial Times, "We are not seeing any vaccines in the UK arriving here,” he said after describing previous EU vaccine exports to Britain as examples of "solidarity"

Words fail me. If the majority of the manufacturing has occured in the EU, how can we possibly be reciprocal. Also, conveniently forgetting that we took all the pre-made doses early on, which the EU were in no way ready for. If we hadn't take and used those first doses, they would have gone out of date, as the EU/EMA had not authorised them for use. How convenient that this is not highlighted.

@3asAbird I'm South Wales Valleys.

DM, DSF plus 4 of my Aunts/Uncles ( all 76 - 79 age group) were done in Newport Centre - all Pfizer. 4 NHS family members were done in Cwmbran - all Pzifer. They've all had second dose 3/4 weeks ago, approx 5-6 weeks after 1st dose.

PIL were the first people I knew to be vaccinated - they were done at GPs as 80+ and had AZ, no second dose yet, but due within the next week I believe.