Telegraph is reporting vaccine to be compulsory for care home workers

[bathsh3ba]

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/22/care-home-staff-face-compulsory-covid-vaccination/

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea of making any vaccine compulsory....

Thoughts?

Some people (the usual suspects too!) are banging their drums in support of care workers in this particular area when virtually no noise is ever made about it otherwise. The recent Supreme Court ruling on night wages, for example, was particularly outrageous. Seems like they want to push an agenda.

I fully recognise there may be valid reasons for care workers to not be vaccinated. I do worry for the very vulnerable residents though and implore those who don’t get vaccinated to remember your actions do impact on others. However, that doesn’t mean I believe it should be enforced.

No jab no job is perfectly normal in several sectors in the UK, I have had Hep jabs as well as a BCG as part of my work.

In the USA state where I live currently dc need jabs for school private or state and all universities also require them.

This isn't the big deal it is being made out to be.

NHS have to have hep B to avoid the disease being spread. Same should apply to Covid, care home staff and NHS workers should have it or not offered work. We must do our best to protect sick and vulnerable people. Employees personal choice is to have it and keep job or refuse and have redundancy.

This isn’t about blame. And it’s not compulsory. It’s about looking at the biggest causes of Covid in care homes and controlling it

Just because it wasn’t controlled before, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be now. Just because there is one cause, doesn’t mean another shouldn’t be Controlled.

The vaccine will be a condition of employment. That’s not compulsory. If someone doesn’t wish to or can’t have it then this is fine, they have the choice to be unvaccinated. they just can’t work there with the vulnerable.. Because of rhe increased risk they pose to residents.

So all major sources of catching it, be it hospital or dental care or care home staff need to be minimised.

Saying it’s ok for staff to choose not to be vaccinated and still care for the vulnerable is wrong. How many staff can an individual home then have unvaccinated. One. ? Ten? Twenty? The overall averages are not relevant, it’s about the staff in a given home. And it only takes one person. To infect one resident and you can have mass deaths in one home.

Saying well they didn’t control the hospital discharges months ago,,so? What’s that got to do with the plan now to control discharges and vaccinate staff?

^^ I’m a vaccinated community based care worker.

@MaxNormal

Because transmission is reduced to a vanishingly small probability with the vaccine. I do wish people would stop spouting this garbage about vaccination not reducing transmission

On either this thread or another one I was told I was spouting anti-vax garbage for suggesting it did reduce transmission and told to educate myself.

I know. It’s incredible that people confidently come out with this bloody nonsense when the evidence that they’re wrong is increasing all the time. 🤷‍♀️

It may well be a condition of employment moving forward. The problem is those currently in post may not wish to be vaccinated and I am honestly not sure if a contract can be changed. I am not certain of the legal implications.

Notthemessiah
*So many sickening quotes from middle class posters who this kind of thing will never apply to but who are happy to force it onto those down at the bottom of the ladder, whilst disingenuously lying to both themselves and the rest of us by pretending that it's a 'choice' and that if someone doesn't like it they can go and get another job (as if most wouldn't have done that already if they had any ability to).

As for those saying that those working in care shouldn't be doing it if they don't 'care' - you care yourselves for those elderly relatives that you prefer to stick in homes, outsourcing the 'caring' to some exploited minimum wage worker with no alternatives (and then complaining about it when it turns out the care isn't very good, as if that will somehow salve your consciences).

What a nasty post.. so many assumptions, I look after my 85 year old mum with dementia, and my 86 year old dad, with no iota of help, financial or otherwise, yes they live with me.
l cook, clean, wash, do all their admin etc, as well as work full time.
I have lived in horror this last year, of my dear mum deteriorating enough that l can no longer manage to care for her at home, terrified that she would have to go into a home not understanding why, and risking her dying a horrible death of Covid.
The lengths and sacrifices we as a family have gone through to protect my parents are massive, finally there has been light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccine.
In all probability when, rather than if, my beloved mum needed more help and care than possible at home it would finally be safe.

There are thousands of women like me caring for our family members, but not every elderly person has that choice.
For many they have no choice but to go into a home, where you feel they should be exposed to totally unnecessary risk, as carers do the job thay are paid for...but hey.. if they don't want to have the vaccine which we are so very fortunate to have access to, sod the risks to the vulnerable people they look after.

My elderly relative, who died, caught it in the hospital when they were there for something else. So, they went into hospital for something unrelated and caught Covid off a worker there. That is not right. Moving forward all nurses, hospital workers and any other staff caring for the sick and vulnerable need to be vaccinated, or moved to non patient facing roles.

Some people (the usual suspects too!) are banging their drums in support of care workers in this particular area when virtually no noise is ever made about it otherwise. The recent Supreme Court ruling on night wages, for example, was particularly outrageous. Seems like they want to push an agenda.

No noise is made about it because no one generally listens to the people on the ground who do this day in and day out. They are dismissed, both figuratively and practically. Only the policy makers and the ones who are gaining profit from care are listened to.
Panorama programmes have highlighted poor care more than once, each time there's public outcry, promises are made, lessons are learned and care staff are sacked, and then it all goes away until next time. And there'll always be a next time because the real roots of these problems are never exposed and protected by the people who plant them.
There are failures that go far, far higher than the staff at the bedside, but usually it's the staff at the bedside that take the blame and have gained the reputation that largely is not deserved.

@Alsohuman

Statements like "the probability of transmission with the vaccine is vanishingly small" can't be made with assurance either.

AstraZeneca is thought to cut transmission by around 70%.

@Maverickess

I hate the saying “lessons have been learned”. It’s all talk and no action.

Care workers are there for the most vulnerable individuals in society. There are people with needs that means they don’t need regular input from health care professionals but cannot feed themselves or get a drink. The reality is they’d quickly die if they weren’t provided the vital care. Such an undervalued profession. :( It’s annoying seeing the usual suspects on here using this to champion their beliefs about the vaccine.

I work in care and was vaccinated but a few of my colleagues have opted out for personal reasons, nothing should be mandatory.

One is trying to conceive after several miscarriages and can't find conclusive evidence that it won't affect her chances/future pregnancy and another has severe vaccine anxiety after a nasty reaction to one as a child.

I didn't have my Hep vaccine as I didn't want it when offered (I was pregnant) and haven't bothered to follow up - it has never been mandatory in my workplace.

This isn’t about blame

But the care homes can't be trusted so the government have to step in?

Sounds like blame to me.

I don't have a problem with being vaccinated. I have a problem with care staff being told they 'can't be trusted' without intervention from a government that couldn't get their act together over this at the start and offer support to keep care workers risks low and in turn their patients risks low, who then turn around and say, oh you know what, we have to force care workers to have the vaccine if they want to stay employed, because actually they're the real problem.
It shouldn't be about blame, it should be about working together to find ways to keep the risk as low as possible, yet it's become about blame very quickly, and that's why people like me are getting upset about it.
Especially when we've been doing it all along, everything we can, to keep our residents safe, and have been left to get on with it for the most part, with minimal support, and now suddenly, we're the ones who are killing people.

One is trying to conceive after several miscarriages and can't find conclusive evidence that it won't affect her chances/future pregnancy and another has severe vaccine anxiety after a nasty reaction to one as a child.

Then they refuse the vaccine and find another job that does not involve looking after frail and vulnerable people.

But the care homes can't be trusted so the government have to step in?

Yes, becayse the statistics show staff have been and continue to be a risk to the residents. There’s no way round it. None at all. It’s not blame it’s simply a fact. Staff have infected residents and out breaks have occured leading to deaths. This doesn’t mean it was on purpose. Half the people who get it don’t even know they have it. Ppe has not always been provided or worn correctly. Staff are forced to work if they need the money as they can’t afford to be off.

It’s nothing to do with blame, it’s simply identify the root causes and mitigate them.

Soon it will be No Universal Credit if you dont have the vaccine. And if you cant accept a care job due to not having it ...........a sanction.

Fucking hypocritical coming from a Government that told the NHS to discharge infected patients back into care homes without testing.

@Violetlavenders so they should give up a job they've been doing and love for 10+ years because someone decided that they no longer have autonomy on this 1 vaccine?

Also, not every care worker works with the elderly/frail people!

Soon it will be No Universal Credit if you dont have the vaccine.

Absolutely no one is saying this and it’s unhelpful to suggest they are.

It’s not unreasonable to ask those who work in the most Covid vulnerable environments with the most Covid vulnerable patients to get a vaccine.

Ask being the key word.

because someone decided that they no longer have autonomy on this 1 vaccine?

No. Because part of their job is to look after the welfare of frail people.

And no one has a right to keep doing a job because they ‘love’ it.

@TheKeatingFive again, not all care homes are full of detail people.

There are kids in care too, not just the elderly

@YNK

What about MY rights not to be placed in contact with unvaccinated people?

I don't mind people choosing not to be vaccinated but I do not consent to their anonymity to cause me harm.

Why? Are you not going to be vaccinated?

@Bluntness100

But the care homes can't be trusted so the government have to step in?

Yes, becayse the statistics show staff have been and continue to be a risk to the residents. There’s no way round it. None at all. It’s not blame it’s simply a fact. Staff have infected residents and out breaks have occured leading to deaths. This doesn’t mean it was on purpose. Half the people who get it don’t even know they have it. Ppe has not always been provided or worn correctly. Staff are forced to work if they need the money as they can’t afford to be off.

It’s nothing to do with blame, it’s simply identify the root causes and mitigate them.

Half the people who get it don't know they have it - more effective testing, I have 4 a week (3 lft and 1 pcr) it's a 50/50 if I even receive my pcr result. The track and trace app that you're supposed to upload your results onto (should you get them) is useless. Lft are not that accurate, better than nothing certainly.

PPE not provided or worn correctly - ensuring it's provided and there's enough and thst staff are aware how to use and dispose of correctly, making it a priority. Costs money though. Before this in some of the places I've worked getting hold of a pair of gloves was an impossible task.

Staff forced to work if they need the money - then let's make it so that's not happening by paying real sick pay in line with what they earn rather than forcing people to go to work ill or suffer financial concequences. But again, will cost money from the care providers or government.

All those things are very much within care providers and government control to change, they've had a year, they haven't bothered. They wouldn't solve the problem but they'd certainly go a long way towards stopping the spread of covid and other illnesses like flu and norovirus too.

Instead forcing vaccination enables all the above to continue, As it always has, and means care workers are shouldering all the burden for keeping the residents safe and the care providers and government get to ignore the rest of the problems. Vaccination in line with all of the above, yes, it'll go a long way towards keeping vulnerable people safe. More than vaccination alone. If the government were doing something about those 3 things you highlighted with as much determination as they are vaccines, I'd believe they were serious.

And I'm sorry but the phrase "Can't be trusted" isn't one I associate with a no blame. They can't be trusted insinuates that they're doing something wrong, that they're at fault. I don't mean to be nit-picky about the language used, but to read that apparently I can't be trusted and have to be forced into doing the right thing by a government that hasn't and isn't also doing the right thing is demoralising and patronising.