Holidays abroad are illegal from Monday

[Dugee]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9389921/Ban-leaving-UK-amid-new-coronavirus-laws-force-week.html

Along with any other unnecessary travel abroad.

The US is far, far less densely populated than the UK. I think a lot of the differences in infection rates/deaths is simply down to that. (saying this as an American)

@forinborin

Those wishing to enter from abroad from countries that are not RED countries self isolate not in hotels. Frankly we have no idea what they are doing. If their phone signal leaves the designated area (the address where they declared to be staying), the police comes within 10-15 minutes and asks to explain. Happened to a few acquaintances already.

And if they leave their phone at home or have more than one phone?

@Itsalonghaul

Oh thats okay then, I am sure the US are completely relieved to lose half million people in less than a year magenta

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

The point is that there is no real difference between the US states that locked down and those that haven’t or lifted restrictions early.

So what’s the point of a lockdown when you get pretty much the same results with a more targeted approach, as in Florida?

@littleloopylou

The US is far, far less densely populated than the UK. I think a lot of the differences in infection rates/deaths is simply down to that. (saying this as an American)

If you look at the international stats, population density doesn't seem to have any particular correlation to death rates.

@MagentaZebras

You're right, I was using population density to explain why the death rates arent worse in the US given all the covid deniers and mask refusers. It's a more complicated picture than this.

Here is an article on it. Densely populated countries that put a lid on it fast, with strong restrictions, have had better outcomes than those which haven't:

www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ff8c68fc5b63642b6fba9eb/amp

[quote Srslydontgiveacrap]@CleverCatty

This is you:

"lot of mean, nasty attitudes on here. Can guarantee this won't affect a lot of them so they don't care. Total lack of empathy, brainwashed by Covid, nothing else matters in life anymore."

Totally mean and nasty.[/quote]
I did not say that so don't quote me...! Someone else said that.

@Flinstones

CLEVERCATTY you sound very mean. Obviously your not in this position but it's funny that if you were you'd be totally understanding & made plans accordingly! I somehow think not!

I've not moved to another country though - I could have done so when younger but I haven't done this.

[quote littleloopylou]@MagentaZebras

You're right, I was using population density to explain why the death rates arent worse in the US given all the covid deniers and mask refusers. It's a more complicated picture than this.

Here is an article on it. Densely populated countries that put a lid on it fast, with strong restrictions, have had better outcomes than those which haven't:

www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ff8c68fc5b63642b6fba9eb/amp[/quote]
The issue is that there are many factors at play and it's extremely difficult to separate correlation from causation.

Population density doesn't seem to have much correlation even, when you drill down below country level (as many countries had different restrictions in different regions/ states). By far the most important factor as you allude to was how quickly quarantine was instigated at borders (proper quarantine, not "self-isolating"). There is no need to close borders entirely, proper quarantine for all travellers serves the purpose.

If our Government had elected to state fund hotel quarantine last Jan/ Feb when many of us were arguing for it, as data emerged from China, that would have cost orders of magnitude less than they've had to spend on Covid to date. There would have been no need for widespread lockdowns here, or for absolute bans on going abroad.

What plans would you have made @CleverCatty? Purchased a private jet?

MagentaZebras

"I was pointing out that your apparent horror at the US numbers is misplaced considering the UK numbers are significantly worse."

The US has 92,173 cases per million and 1,675 deaths per million
The UK has 63,208 cases per million and 1,853 deaths per million
So, althought the UK has a higher death rate, the US has a far higher case rate.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[quote andyoldlabour]MagentaZebras

"I was pointing out that your apparent horror at the US numbers is misplaced considering the UK numbers are significantly worse."

The US has 92,173 cases per million and 1,675 deaths per million
The UK has 63,208 cases per million and 1,853 deaths per million
So, althought the UK has a higher death rate, the US has a far higher case rate.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries[/quote]
I quoted those exact figures if you actually read my posts. Of course they have a higher case rate, their population is 6 times the size! Case rate also depends on testing rate and availability over the whole pandemic so is fairly irrelevant, it is the deaths per capita that matter.

To be clear even case rate per capita tells us nothing as that depends how readily available testing is. The deaths are what show the true situation.

@MagentaZebras

What plans would you have made *@CleverCatty*? Purchased a private jet?

plans for what @ MagentaZebras travel home?

I'd accept - as other friends have done as I've stated - that I/they won't be able to go home for a while to see family or as in the case of one friend, and several colleagues, moved home.

In fact I was speaking to a Spanish colleague today (with German partner) - she's lived in Spain with her family since after Xmas because our work allow her to WFH. After end of March she'll probably be asked to return to UK to WFH because we have certain guidelines in place about how long you can WFH abroad. She said, yes, she's concerned etc if she can't see family but she's looking forward to them getting vaccinated when they can and also to her being able to travel when she can.

I love the way everyone piles on as though it's my fault re Brexit, my fault that you can't visit home countries and see family and that it's me making these decisions re travel. I'd love it if you could travel home - my friend with her DF with Alzheimers is really suffering not being able to see him, but she's making the most of things for now. She also realises as she's told me this, that it's part and parcel of her living in UK, she doesn't have to like this, though.

Nobody has said it id your fault. 🙄 The issue is the dismissive tone you've taken with everybody who is suffering as a result of these large unnecessary decisions. There is no reason as I pointed out above that the UK Government could have chosen - instead of locking us all down, trashing the economy and causing one of the worst death rates per capita in the world - to have instead implemented proper hotel quarantine for incoming travellers from the beginning. Even at its own expense, this would have saved hundreds of billions of pounds, aside from the human cost of what they've done.

To imply that preventing people seeing family for years was an inevitability is simply false. Or indeed many of the other restrictions that we've all had to and continue to endure.

I am asking this as I am unclear on the ins and outs of the travel regulations but because of the way I write it might sound sarcastic.

I do not intend to be sarcastic or mean.

Question - Last summer when the rules were relaxed was it possible for people to visit family abroad then?

@StarCat2020

I am asking this as I am unclear on the ins and outs of the travel regulations but because of the way I write it might sound sarcastic.

I do not intend to be sarcastic or mean.

Question - Last summer when the rules were relaxed was it possible for people to visit family abroad then?

yes it was possible.

@MagentaZebras

Nobody has said it id your fault. 🙄 The issue is the dismissive tone you've taken with everybody who is suffering as a result of these large unnecessary decisions. There is no reason as I pointed out above that the UK Government could have chosen - instead of locking us all down, trashing the economy and causing one of the worst death rates per capita in the world - to have instead implemented proper hotel quarantine for incoming travellers from the beginning. Even at its own expense, this would have saved hundreds of billions of pounds, aside from the human cost of what they've done.

To imply that preventing people seeing family for years was an inevitability is simply false. Or indeed many of the other restrictions that we've all had to and continue to endure.

ok apologies for being dismissive. That wasn't nice of me.

I totally agree and would have been in full favour of proper hotel quarantine for incoming travellers but our useless government didn't want to do that/couldn't do that and worse still relied on people self isolating after being abroad - I know of at least one person who didn't do that, after a holiday last year.

yes it was possible
For everybody?

@CleverCatty indeed. And now they've gone to the other extreme and are banning anyone from leaving (with... ahem... intriguing exceptions) while still allowing most people to arrive here from elsewhere without any proper measures in place (still self-isolation and free to travel home on public transport etc from most countries). Therefore the package of measures is unscientific, excessive in terms of its limitation of rights for UK citizens, and pointless in terms of likely outcome if done in the manner proposed.

You can still travel abroad to see a family member that is in hospital / very poorly

You can still travel abroad to see a family member that is in hospital / very poorly

If you had read the thread that is not at all the point.

[quote MagentaZebras]@CleverCatty indeed. And now they've gone to the other extreme and are banning anyone from leaving (with... ahem... intriguing exceptions) while still allowing most people to arrive here from elsewhere without any proper measures in place (still self-isolation and free to travel home on public transport etc from most countries). Therefore the package of measures is unscientific, excessive in terms of its limitation of rights for UK citizens, and pointless in terms of likely outcome if done in the manner proposed. [/quote]
I think it's totally messed up I agree - most people shouldn't ne allowed to arrive here without proper measure or being checked up on.

I couldn't afford a holiday abroad, even if they weren't illegal. We had got some money saved up for one, last year. But that idea got tanked and now so has our savings. Oh well roll on another few years, maybe then we can afford another. We haven't been aboard in 14 years, so what's another 2 or 3 years.

@User133847

A year too late unfortunately.

This! We were locked down but watching people fly in and out with no tracing or quarantining! Other island nations quarantined all arrivals, no excuses for being on business or an influencer in Dubai. They did so much better. No have a negative test bullshit, you’re more likely to catch it on the plane/going through the airport and a negative test on day 2 doesn’t mean you won’t get it day 10. I’ve had friends quarantine with sick family members, so very exposed, test negative on day 10 but luckily it was the weekend then as they didn’t get symptomatic until day 12 and then test positive.

It’ll be fine by July/Aug. There’ll be International Travel with vax and or test.