Outbreaks in schools

[Trustisamust]

Since schools have returned there have already been major outbreaks in both my child's secondary and the primary I work at.
The majority of school staff remain unvaccinated.
For how many other schools is this already the case?
I just don't know what to think any more.

I agree that those who can't work from home should have been prioritised.
My husband was one of the first to be vaccinated because he works in social care. Whilst of course I'm pleased he had it, he has worked from home 99% of the time. When he done visits (about three or so since his jab) he has worn full PPE which has been provided to him.
I am a teacher, specialising in teaching SEN children. Primary age. I obviously cannot WFH. No vaccine for me of course. Three-form entry so 90 children per year group plus on-site nursery.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@tigger1001
Because retail workers are in shops where adults are not given the choice about wearing masks; factory workers can socially distance from other workers ( although wax on will appear to tell me they can’t); bus drivers have screens and passenger numbers are limited...Personally, I would give everyone who HAS to work away from home the vaccine before those who can stay at home. We are doing jobs society needs and should be valued for doing them. I don’t feel particularly pleased that a healthy 62 year old working from home had a vaccine before me. Neither do many of my colleagues who are taking early retirement and leaving at the end of this academic year so they too can sit safely at home when the next wave hits.

I can’t speak for your son’s teachers (although every school I know had the staff room ‘removed’ to avoid staff being able to congregate) but I would like to live and live in a way that isn’t affected by long Covid.

Schools are not safe. You are lucky if you are young, healthy or vaccinated but there are so many who aren’t still working in schools right now.[/quote]
Just seen this.

Easy for you to say "factory staff can distance" when you don't work in one yourself. No, we can't, because we make large items of furniture which involve more than one person to move around because of the weight of them. It's not a production line where people just sit there pressing buttons.

We had a large Covid outbreak where more than 20% of staff caught the virus so don't tell me that my workplace is safer than yours when you haven't set foot into it. On paper, it's Covid secure but in reality if you look at the stats for outbreaks in factories it's much different.

@sherrystrull

I believe that anyone working in very close proximity to multiple others without social distancing deserves to have it as soon as possible.

I also believe that anyone not working in a school is incredibly arrogant to comment about a working environment they aren't experiencing.

Same as people commenting about any other workplace environment that they aren't experiencing, but some people seem to be happy to tell me that my workplace is Covid safe when they haven't been in it.

Yes, it’s annoying isn’t it? I wish people who haven’t got a clue would stop telling me I’m safe especially as people in their late 40s now have to wait even longer to be vaccinated. It’s very frustrating to be told by people who don’t experience it that my workplace is ‘safe’, especially as they tend to be younger (in their early 20s and 30s) or working from home or vaccinated (and often a combination of all three). Perhaps we should all just listen to the people who actually experience the conditions?

The outbreaks may or may not stop but they are continuing right now.

Statistically working in a school is safer than on the buses and in factories.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

Yes, it’s annoying isn’t it? I wish people who haven’t got a clue would stop telling me I’m safe especially as people in their late 40s now have to wait even longer to be vaccinated. It’s very frustrating to be told by people who don’t experience it that my workplace is ‘safe’, especially as they tend to be younger (in their early 20s and 30s) or working from home or vaccinated (and often a combination of all three). Perhaps we should all just listen to the people who actually experience the conditions?

The outbreaks may or may not stop but they are continuing right now.

I don't think many work places are "safe" and certainly not "covid safe/secure" that term is just about making people feel safer rather than it actually being safer.

There are lots of jobs and work places which put people into close contact with others. That's my point, why should we prioritise schools because of that? There are many other workplaces, that if it was being done on an occupational basis, would be ahead of teachers and schools.

Where I am secondary schools are not yet back full time and won't be until mid April. Schools are socially distancing until then. Around 6-8 per class generally. 1/4 of the junior year groups in 4 days per week and only senior pupils doing practical classes in on the 5th day. Why does that make a teacher in these circumstances a priority over a retail worker, for example? Or a factory worker?

It is in everyone's best interests to get the vaccines rolled out asap, and not get dragged into the debate of which occupation is more deserving.

The vaccine roll out started at the beginning of January, with the usual doom and gloom section saying it would take a long time to roll out, and here we are on 21 March with half of the adult population vaccinated with their first dose. That's fantastic news for us all.

The more at risk teachers (ie these falling in the current priority groups) will have received their first dose.

@tigger1001

I agree other occupations should be prioritised if they work closely with multiple others.

I've also explained why you're being arrogant and it's nothing to do with you 'wanting hospitalisations to fall quickly'.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I don't know what you do and would never comment on another's workplace risk. That was my whole point. It drives me crazy when people say how safe I am in school and how I've over inflated my risk when knowing nothing about it.

@tigger1001

Where I am schools have been back in full form with no social distancing for two weeks.

Your experience of schools is clearly influencing your opinion. I appreciate that. Please turn listen to differing opinions and experiences.

@tigger1001 where are you that your return is like that? My school is most definitely not like that!

It's frustrating there are swathes of people WFH who have been vaccinated under the 'NHS' banner, yet teachers haven't been. Especially when those professionals still refuse to come to school because 'it's not safe'.

[quote HercwasanEnemyofEducation]@tigger1001 where are you that your return is like that? My school is most definitely not like that!

It's frustrating there are swathes of people WFH who have been vaccinated under the 'NHS' banner, yet teachers haven't been. Especially when those professionals still refuse to come to school because 'it's not safe'.[/quote]
Am in Scotland. We are blended learning for secondary pupils, which started last week and then full time from after the Easter holidays. Primary kids went back phased too and were all back from last Monday.

Each school does it slightly differently based on its on cohort, but my eldest was in one day last week and again one day this week with only a quarter in at any one time.

[quote sherrystrull]@tigger1001

Where I am schools have been back in full form with no social distancing for two weeks.

Your experience of schools is clearly influencing your opinion. I appreciate that. Please turn listen to differing opinions and experiences. [/quote]
I am listening. I am not saying schools are "safe". I am saying that the current priority groups, with the aim to reduce hospitalisations is to me right.

I think if we went down the road of vaccinating people based on their workplace it would be a disaster. And full of red tape and discussion as to which professions and in which order. Let's do it the quickest way which benefits us all - teachers included.

Yes Scotland has a very different return. Perhaps you're not coming across well to people in England who are back in full time with not many extra measures.

I do mostly agree with the vaccination policy. On a statistical level it makes sense. The best decision statistically would be to have vaccinated men before women too, but that didn't happen! Having travelling vaccinators is a huge waste of resources, centralised centres are far better and more efficient.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Yes Scotland has a very different return. Perhaps you're not coming across well to people in England who are back in full time with not many extra measures.

I do mostly agree with the vaccination policy. On a statistical level it makes sense. The best decision statistically would be to have vaccinated men before women too, but that didn't happen! Having travelling vaccinators is a huge waste of resources, centralised centres are far better and more efficient.

The unions have the same argument here though.

I just want everyone to have had the opportunity for a vaccine ASAP. We have clinics here and you get your appointment letter through the post or are contacted by your gp. Every health area is at a slightly different point in their roll out, which will depend on the demographic of their population. Where I am, we are still doing clinical needs along side age, and appear to have started the under 60's for age. I would be disappointed if a healthy younger teacher was vaccinated quicker than the person who has a medical vulnerability to hospitalisation due to covid.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

Yes, it’s annoying isn’t it? I wish people who haven’t got a clue would stop telling me I’m safe especially as people in their late 40s now have to wait even longer to be vaccinated. It’s very frustrating to be told by people who don’t experience it that my workplace is ‘safe’, especially as they tend to be younger (in their early 20s and 30s) or working from home or vaccinated (and often a combination of all three). Perhaps we should all just listen to the people who actually experience the conditions?

The outbreaks may or may not stop but they are continuing right now.

Yes, I agree. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone working in a school what their working conditions are like. But then why should school staff be prioritised for vaccination over everyone else working out of the home?

[quote sherrystrull]@Waxonwaxoff0

I don't know what you do and would never comment on another's workplace risk. That was my whole point. It drives me crazy when people say how safe I am in school and how I've over inflated my risk when knowing nothing about it. [/quote]
Yes, agree. But a lot of school staff are insinuating that their job is much more risky than anyone else working out of the home. Someone on this thread suggested that because I can wear a mask at work then I'm protected.

It’s easy to be ‘disappointed’ if you are not taking the risk. That’s what is boils down to for me. When everyone else is back at work in a place where you can have numerous people in one room (who don’t have to socially distance) and those people aren’t expected to wear masks if they don’t want to wear a mask, I might feel differently - although more people will be vaccinated by then so there will be less risk anyway. This country has treated those working in education shamefully. Parents ignore it as (naturally) they put their children first and acknowledging the issues would mean more disruption for their children and their own work. Throughout the pandemic, schools have been, and still are, unsafe working environments for unvaccinated adults.

I agree that being vaccinated ahead of anyone clinically vulnerable or over 50. I do think that I should be vaccinated ahead of people under 50 and WFH but I appreciate that is a logistical nightmare and may slow the process.

Putting teachers on a call up list like the police would be a good idea.

Well, I thought none as we heard nothing from school. But saw my friend and her kid is isolating. So maybe more than that, who knows?

@Waxonwaxoff0
I’ve said before, I would vaccinate everyone who has to work away from home as a priority after the very old (over 80) or those who need any form of care or external medical help such as cancer patients (can’t realistically isolate). A healthy 73 year old can stay at home and get their shopping delivered. Their contact with the virus should have been low if they followed the law. It isn’t a popular view though.

I do feel more protected by wearing a mask and I am happy that teenagers have been ‘encouraged’ to do so in class, I would make it ‘told’ to do so. It’s minor but when you are given nothing else, you grab what you can to keep safe.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation
The call up list is a good idea.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

It’s easy to be ‘disappointed’ if you are not taking the risk. That’s what is boils down to for me. When everyone else is back at work in a place where you can have numerous people in one room (who don’t have to socially distance) and those people aren’t expected to wear masks if they don’t want to wear a mask, I might feel differently - although more people will be vaccinated by then so there will be less risk anyway. This country has treated those working in education shamefully. Parents ignore it as (naturally) they put their children first and acknowledging the issues would mean more disruption for their children and their own work. Throughout the pandemic, schools have been, and still are, unsafe working environments for unvaccinated adults.

But who is to say I'm not taking the risk? I don't work in the home. My partner doesn't work in the home and works in close contact (less than 2 meters at times) with his bubble for 5 sometimes 6 days per week (and also with people outside his bubble but that's not supposed to happen - reality is that is does). My kids are at school (youngest is back full time, eldest part time but at school each day as has a key worker place) and I am medically at a higher risk of being hospitalised with covid. Why should a healthy younger teacher get priority over me, just based on their occupation, when statistically they are less likely to be hospitalised from covid. That's the question.

There seems to be a view that you are either a teacher, or work at home. The reality is there are more risky jobs from a covid perspective than teachers. Not saying the job is covid safe, just pointing out that there are others less safe. Yet there seems to be some who would vaccinate teachers first over these roles.

Why can't we be pleased that people are being vaccinated far quicker than we thought possible, even in January rather than being pissed off that some are vaccinated before ourselves. It's been said on this thread that people who are vaccinated are lucky. While disregarding that they are likely to have been vaccinated as they either have underlying health issues which make them clinically vulnerable to covid or their age means they are statistically more vulnerable. I wonder if the people who have been vaccinated feel lucky to have been at a higher risk of hospitalisation or death from covid but that's meant they get their vaccine a few months earlier than these unlucky enough to be healthy and younger so statistically less likely to end up in hospital or worse? Or wish they were further down the priority list as it meant they were healthier? It's a fairly warped view to be honest.

I get that we all want to feel safe and vaccines are the way for that to happen. But let's not turn vaccines into another aspect of covid where people turn on each other as they see their own need as more important, rather than the bigger picture.

I wonder if the people who have been vaccinated feel lucky to have been at a higher risk of hospitalisation or death from covid but that's meant they get their vaccine a few months earlier than these unlucky enough to be healthy and younger so statistically less likely to end up in hospital or worse?

Reality is that plenty of people who have been vaccinated are young and without underlying conditions and do WFH. Anecdotally I know of 12 people under 40 WFH for NHS or 'care'.

I look at it that every person vaccinated is a good thing and helps us all. However I do think teachers (and other jobs) are fine to feel aggrieved.

Some sixth formers tested positive on Wednesday - they were sent home.

Extra measures are not needed as teachers are already safer than many occupational groups.
Please - just look at the numbers and say why you think teachers should be ahead of the queue. I get that your classrooms are not social distancing, mask wearing etc but they weren't before Christmas and that's where the stats are coming from.