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Outbreaks in schools

519 replies

Trustisamust · 18/03/2021 04:15

Since schools have returned there have already been major outbreaks in both my child's secondary and the primary I work at.
The majority of school staff remain unvaccinated.
For how many other schools is this already the case?
I just don't know what to think any more.

OP posts:
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 20/03/2021 10:22

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-56432558

ConfusedCarrie · 20/03/2021 10:25

My mum is CEV and my dad only goes to the supermarket. He is extremely careful, distancing, mask, cleaning the shopping etc. No visitors, no contact with anyone other than the supermarket. They have both caught C19. Fortunately, although my mum was seriously ill, they have recovered.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 10:45

@moose62

Secondary school with 1500, we have been testing...no outbreaks among staff or students. 85% uptake. Government directions that all children are admitted whether they agree to the tests or not. The tests are fine and quick, really don't understand the logic of parents refusing unless on medical grounds.
Lateral flow tests are not very reliable and there have been lots of false positives. A case at our local school - one tested positive, using a lateral flow test, which resulted in the bubble having to self isolate, only for the actual covid test to be negative.

Also some schools won't allow a pupil back if the lateral flow test was positive but the subsequent covid test negative. If that was the case in my sons school I wouldn't be consenting.

We haven't started testing yet, but will do after the school holidays. Testing here is done at home, not in school.

And as it's teenagers we are talking about here, I think it's important to take their feelings into account. My son and I spoke at length about it and he is happy to do the tests and understands the implications. But if he was adamant he didn't want to do them, then I certainly wouldn't force him. The thought of withholding education to a teenager for not consenting to a medical test, which isn't all that accurate in the first place just doesn't bear thinking about.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 10:50

@motherrunner

To those saying ‘no cases’ in schools, how would you know?

We only alert the year group affected, not the whole school.

Our school (both primary and secondary) email to confirm there is a positive case with someone connected with the school, and just say it's for transparency, if your child is directly affected you are contacted separately before the general email is issued.

It stops the gossiping.

SellFridges · 20/03/2021 10:55

Our school also alerts everyone, via an email after those affected have been contacted directly. The tell us the year group affected and whether it’s a child or member of staff who has tested positive. We’ve had one since the return, picked up on a lateral flow and later confirmed by PCR - they also confirmed that detail.

As a pp poster says, it stops the gossiping.

SilverGlassHare · 20/03/2021 11:01

Same here. We did have a case at half term in autumn, but as the child developed symptoms at the end of the week off, there was no need for any bubbles to burst. Nevertheless, school texted us to explain and reassure. And we live in a small town, no way would it be a secret if bubbles were bursting! I know the secondary school has had bubbles burst from the grapevine though don’t know the details as I don’t have a child in that school.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 11:12

@Trustisamust

I DO think staff should have been vaccinated before reopening.
Which priority group would you bump down the list in order to get teachers vaccinated now? Or would you rather schools were closed until all adults were vaccinated?
sherrystrull · 20/03/2021 11:20

Has any other group prioritised by their job 'bumped' others down the list or is it solely an argument yelled at school staff? That's what it seems to me anyway. School staff can be done alongside other groups as part of the vaccination process as part of reducing spread. Many other countries have done it.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 20/03/2021 11:46

@tigger1001
And as it's teenagers we are talking about here, I think it's important to take their feelings into account. My son and I spoke at length about it and he is happy to do the tests and understands the implications. But if he was adamant he didn't want to do them, then I certainly wouldn't force him. The thought of withholding education to a teenager for not consenting to a medical test, which isn't all that accurate in the first place just doesn't bear thinking about.

I disagree, I’m afraid. Yes, he is entitled to make his own decision (and I’m glad he’s having the tests) but as a member of society, he and any other teenager has to understand their actions have wider consequences and they have responsibilities. I suspect those who are over 18 and unvaccinated will be unwelcome in some countries when they chose to go on holiday. It is their decision not to have a vaccine but they can’t be shocked if they are unwanted.

Your later post about vaccines for teachers also made me laugh. We can’t expect poor teenagers to wear masks and take Covid tests but we shouldn’t be a priority for a vaccine. This kind of attitude is exactly why teachers should have been vaccinated earlier because schools are never, ever going to be Covid safe and it is only fair that those who work in these unsafe places are given some support.

Paquerette · 20/03/2021 12:01

@sherrystrull

Has any other group prioritised by their job 'bumped' others down the list or is it solely an argument yelled at school staff? That's what it seems to me anyway. School staff can be done alongside other groups as part of the vaccination process as part of reducing spread. Many other countries have done it.
I agree.

There has been many reports of vaccination centres being really quiet and having plenty of unbooked slots. They could have allowed teachers to book the spare slots from January, and then moved onto the aged 40+ parents.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 12:19

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@tigger1001
And as it's teenagers we are talking about here, I think it's important to take their feelings into account. My son and I spoke at length about it and he is happy to do the tests and understands the implications. But if he was adamant he didn't want to do them, then I certainly wouldn't force him. The thought of withholding education to a teenager for not consenting to a medical test, which isn't all that accurate in the first place just doesn't bear thinking about.

I disagree, I’m afraid. Yes, he is entitled to make his own decision (and I’m glad he’s having the tests) but as a member of society, he and any other teenager has to understand their actions have wider consequences and they have responsibilities. I suspect those who are over 18 and unvaccinated will be unwelcome in some countries when they chose to go on holiday. It is their decision not to have a vaccine but they can’t be shocked if they are unwanted.

Your later post about vaccines for teachers also made me laugh. We can’t expect poor teenagers to wear masks and take Covid tests but we shouldn’t be a priority for a vaccine. This kind of attitude is exactly why teachers should have been vaccinated earlier because schools are never, ever going to be Covid safe and it is only fair that those who work in these unsafe places are given some support.[/quote]
But if you don't have a medical reason as to why you are a priority, why should you expect one before, say a retail worker? Or any other occupation dealing with lots of people face to face? I'm not saying teachers shouldn't get a vaccine - and any who are in the current priority groups will get one as part of that, but just pointing out teachers aren't the only ones dealing with people face to face.

I agree with the governments view - let's get the most people vaccinated with the least amount of administrative burden while ensuring the groups most likely to be hospitalised or die get priority. There was a lot of talk initially that it would take at least 2 years to roll out the vaccination programme, thankfully that's not the case and we are talking months. If the government guidelines stay as they are, then all adults will have been offered the first dose, with many having had their second dose by the start of the next academic year.

Interestingly my sons observation of his teachers is that little in the way of social distancing goes on from the adults in his school. And not all compliant wearing face coverings in corridors etc either. And this has been the case since January when few teachers and children were in school, so no real excuse due to space etc. Yes, it's anecdotal and no it's not an indication that it's like that in every school, but he was getting a little bit fed up of being barked at every time he stood up to remember to social distance, despite there were 5 kids in the room and he was going to the toilet on his own so very much socially distant to then walk past the staff room and see teachers sit in groups, close together with no face masks in sight.

Now that the vaccine programme is moving on quickly, something I've noticed is that there is judgement as to why someone has been vaccinated. If you mention that you have had the vaccine or have an appointment, there is often a "why are you getting it?" The implication is very much why are you getting it before me? Rather than being happy that more and more people are getting vaccinated, which hopefully in itself means we are all at lesser risk.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 20/03/2021 13:21

@tigger1001
Because retail workers are in shops where adults are not given the choice about wearing masks; factory workers can socially distance from other workers ( although wax on will appear to tell me they can’t); bus drivers have screens and passenger numbers are limited...Personally, I would give everyone who HAS to work away from home the vaccine before those who can stay at home. We are doing jobs society needs and should be valued for doing them. I don’t feel particularly pleased that a healthy 62 year old working from home had a vaccine before me. Neither do many of my colleagues who are taking early retirement and leaving at the end of this academic year so they too can sit safely at home when the next wave hits.

I can’t speak for your son’s teachers (although every school I know had the staff room ‘removed’ to avoid staff being able to congregate) but I would like to live and live in a way that isn’t affected by long Covid.

Schools are not safe. You are lucky if you are young, healthy or vaccinated but there are so many who aren’t still working in schools right now.

sherrystrull · 20/03/2021 13:30

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@tigger1001
Because retail workers are in shops where adults are not given the choice about wearing masks; factory workers can socially distance from other workers ( although wax on will appear to tell me they can’t); bus drivers have screens and passenger numbers are limited...Personally, I would give everyone who HAS to work away from home the vaccine before those who can stay at home. We are doing jobs society needs and should be valued for doing them. I don’t feel particularly pleased that a healthy 62 year old working from home had a vaccine before me. Neither do many of my colleagues who are taking early retirement and leaving at the end of this academic year so they too can sit safely at home when the next wave hits.

I can’t speak for your son’s teachers (although every school I know had the staff room ‘removed’ to avoid staff being able to congregate) but I would like to live and live in a way that isn’t affected by long Covid.

Schools are not safe. You are lucky if you are young, healthy or vaccinated but there are so many who aren’t still working in schools right now.[/quote]
Spot on.

BungleandGeorge · 20/03/2021 13:48

Vast majority of teachers at our school are not wearing masks because they find communication more difficult, are they meant to? Not sure what happens in the staff rooms

Totallyfedup1979 · 20/03/2021 13:53

My cousin is an NHS worker who has been working from home. She is 38 and has had her vaccine. No health conditions.
My friend is 58 and runs marathons. She’s slim, fit and does not work. She has her shopping delivered. She has been vaccinated.
I am in my 40’s and working in a high school with KS4 and KS5 students. Asthma and no vaccination.
The roll out has not been fair or completely logical in my opinion. I think those who have no choice whether to be outside of the home, should have been the priority.

Totallyfedup1979 · 20/03/2021 13:58

@BungleandGeorge

Vast majority of teachers at our school are not wearing masks because they find communication more difficult, are they meant to? Not sure what happens in the staff rooms
We don’t have a staff room. It’s closed. Most stay in their classrooms and get on with work. We do not gather.

As for masks, we wear masks everywhere except in our marked out bubble at the front of the class. We are able to remove masks when in this space only. The reason is to accommodate for learners who need to see our faces to learn. If we really feel strongly, we can keep the masks on, but the preference is for us to remove them when teaching to enable communication.
I find that when I’m projecting my voice, I suck the mask into my mouth and it hinders my breathing. Especially these new three layer ones. The mask then gets damp and ineffective. It’s not the same as wearing one around the super market.

sherrystrull · 20/03/2021 14:00

We wear masks when we step outside our bubble. Within our bubble of 30 children there is no social distancing or mask wearing. This is pretty standard in local primary schools.
I haven't been in the staff room for months. My TA had to go in there to collect some equipment and found a Christmas card in my pigeon hole.

middleager · 20/03/2021 14:01

I agree Totally

It's also the randomness of it all. Seeing lots of people in my area today posting on FB that they've had their vaccination. They are 48 like me and live by me, just happen to be at a different surgery.

And on another thread all 40 somethings in a part of Bristol invited.

Meanwhile, we runthe gauntlet of having teens in different schools and also working in schools.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 14:10

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@tigger1001
Because retail workers are in shops where adults are not given the choice about wearing masks; factory workers can socially distance from other workers ( although wax on will appear to tell me they can’t); bus drivers have screens and passenger numbers are limited...Personally, I would give everyone who HAS to work away from home the vaccine before those who can stay at home. We are doing jobs society needs and should be valued for doing them. I don’t feel particularly pleased that a healthy 62 year old working from home had a vaccine before me. Neither do many of my colleagues who are taking early retirement and leaving at the end of this academic year so they too can sit safely at home when the next wave hits.

I can’t speak for your son’s teachers (although every school I know had the staff room ‘removed’ to avoid staff being able to congregate) but I would like to live and live in a way that isn’t affected by long Covid.

Schools are not safe. You are lucky if you are young, healthy or vaccinated but there are so many who aren’t still working in schools right now.[/quote]
What about police? Prison officers?

Surely it would be better for the population as a whole to get the majority vaccinated as quickly as possible? Rather than concentrate on occupations, which could drastically slow down the rate of vaccination?

sherrystrull · 20/03/2021 14:15

Police and prison officers should absolutely be prioritised.

Why would it slow it down? Tell them they can book and they will.

tigger1001 · 20/03/2021 14:34

@sherrystrull

Police and prison officers should absolutely be prioritised.

Why would it slow it down? Tell them they can book and they will.

It puts a bigger administrative burden on the system - they would have to check that the person has entitlement before giving them an appointment.

Ultimately there are always going to be groups of people who feel they need to vaccine before others. There have been some quite disgusting views (not on his thread) as to why the elderly should not have been prioritised for example and the government needed to make decisions based on a clinical need who to prioritise. They have got a lot of things wrong during the pandemic but I honestly don't think the vaccination programme is one of them. The reality is they are getting through the groups much quicker than it was hoped, which is only a good thing, and if all keeps going in this way all adults will have been offered their first vaccine in the next few months with many having had both doses. That is to the benefit of us all.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 20/03/2021 15:16

@BustopherPonsonbyJones not everyone wears a face mask in a shop , police officers etc are also at risk and generally even a healthy 62 year old at home will be more at risk than a healthy 40 year old working as they will still be going out to buy food
My mum is 64 she has only just had her jab and works in a customer facing role
My dh late 40's and goes into prob 20 homes a week and he wears a mask the people he visits don't always and he is in an essential job but not one everyone would think of
So doing by age and clinical vulnerability seems the best way to get through quickly as lots of jobs not just teachers that are also exposed more every day , you just don't know about them

3asAbird · 20/03/2021 15:27

@middleager

I agree Totally

It's also the randomness of it all. Seeing lots of people in my area today posting on FB that they've had their vaccination. They are 48 like me and live by me, just happen to be at a different surgery.

And on another thread all 40 somethings in a part of Bristol invited.

Meanwhile, we runthe gauntlet of having teens in different schools and also working in schools.

I'm east Bristol and I'm 40 husband 48 same surgery not been called. My local freinds early 50s have theirs next week. Other people I see on fb are either group 6 I assume or nhs.. My mum had hers Wales last week shes early 60s and her husbands late 50s this week she keeps making out Wales doing really well vaccines and well ahead.

Re school ny eldest goes school in City centre.
With students from all corners of city and beyond.
Some of staff I think live wales/ weston or bath and commute.
Loads kids travel east and south Bristol to Bath schools.

StanfordPines · 20/03/2021 16:39

It puts a bigger administrative burden on the system - they would have to check that the person has entitlement before giving them an appointment.

I don’t see why it can’t be done in schools. Tell a school that a mobile team will be turning up on a certain day. Everyone fills out a form. All staff pitch up at a point during the school day and get their jab. They will all have ID on them. The same for police stations and prisons. Granted you could get a school done in a day but a police station would take longer.

sherrystrull · 20/03/2021 17:35

I don't understand how it's a bigger administrative burden than doing care home staff or nhs staff.