One dose of AZ?

[Bluenightowl]

For my own reasons I do not want to get a second dose of AZ (there is plenty of debate on other threads about AZ and I don't want this to turn into another anti EU/pro AZ thread ).

I read previously one dose of AZ will give 12 weeks protection against covid?

Can I then get a second dose of another vaccine e.g Pfizer or start again with a different one shot vaccine?

Or as AZ gives 76% protection for up to 90 days, and a second dose will increase protection up to 84% for an unknown time period - is it necessary to get another vaccine at all?

@Bluenightowl

I have posted on four threads about a very topical issue. Yes to the PP. I’m considered a non high risk essential worker. Just heard a report on the radio saying they expect further T&C to be put on AZ by the EMA today. Also said the benefits outweigh the risks, and the downside of halting the vaccine is people lose faith in it and it would have been better to keep vaccinating whilst investigating but they couldn’t do that for safety reasons either. I don’t suppose they care if they lose a few people along the way in the greater scheme of things but I need to be here to see my kids grow up. That’s all I care about.

If you want to be here to see your kids grow up then take the second dose of AZ when it's offered. Listen to the scientists & medics NOT the bloody politicians with ulterior motives.

Far fewer people are getting blood clots after having the AZ than in the general population.
If anything it's REDUCING the risk of that, not increasing it.

It's all political, not scientific stirring this crap up and it's going to cost lives.

youre not being rational numerous people have said pfizer have the same statistics yet you ignore those posts

Fact 1:- risk of clots after having AZ vaccine = lower than risk in general population

Fact 2: risk of clots after having Pfizer = same as risk after having AZ, i.e. lower than risk in general population

Fact 3: risk of clots if you catch Covid = very substantial

Logical conclusion: have 2nd dose of AZ.

Emotional conclusion: accept your level of protection from Covid is not as high as it might be, because as things stand you will not be offered Pfizer as a second dose.

@Bluenightowl

It isn't nonsense. 9 second doses of AZ have been given in Spain and a woman with no underlying health issues has died from a brain hemorrhage.

This is untrue. Spain have given 939,534 doses of the vaccine. Normal CVT rates have been reported as 1.6 per million. 1 woman reported as getting CVT. That's fewer than 1.6 per million, which would indicate lower risk of CVT than in the normal population. Basic maths tells you that you aren't looking at a big risk here, if there even is a risk. You know what does cause lots of clotting though? Covid 19.

What's most likely if you don't get your booster is that your immunity won't last as long. If that's what you want, super. If not, talk to a doctor. Either way, please stop posting alarmist crap with provably incorrect information. Thanks.

@Bluenightowl " I need to be here to see my kids grow up. That’s all I care about. "

Whereas I positively don't give a shiny shit in hell about seeing my DS going though more of his life and so I said I'd have the AZ one.

Your choice but as previous posters have said - your personal reservations are one thing but do try not to scaremonger when thus far there seems to be nothing untoward about the AZ vaccine vs any other & it would be sad to put people off .

as @oneglassandpuzzled said & as my son said to me - you would never take a nurofen etc if you read all the potential side effects.

I wish you well

@Bluenightowl

I didn't not want 'the vaccine'. I didn't want the AZ vaccine. The chance of getting that vaccine was low as the main vaccine here is Pffizer. When I arrived to the vaccination centre, I was told it was AZ.

I don't know whether anyone else has said yet, but you do know that Pfizer has exactly the same side effects don't you? There have also been a number of blood clotting events post Pfizer. When you have vaccinated 50m+ people in the world, you are going to get some who spontaneously die from all causes. You have to balance risk. If you get Covid you are much more likely to have blood clotting issues, and die, than you are having taking the vaccine.

In the end, if you are unsure, don't take either, or any. It is still your choice.

@sandgrown

I volunteer at a vaccination hub. We were so quiet yesterday due to cancellations caused by this scaremongering. I hope this lack of confidence does not cause cases of Covid to spike again as that would cause more deaths .

That's depressing. These incessant posts will be contributing to that. OP should talk to her doctor instead

This angers me . Don’t post on on other threads saying it’s not safe when you don’t know. If you don’t want the second vaccine don’t have it no one actually cares. But scaring people isn’t ok. There’s a conference happening later which will make clear the vaccine is fine. One of my friends believed all the rubbish about the vaccine didn’t have it and caught covid 4 weeks ago. She’s been in a coma now for 3 weeks and its unlikely that she’ll survive . She’s 35 and 2 small kids. Never had a health condition before this just believed all the rubbish people say. Completely sad that but people make up crap to scare people.

@Bluenightowl you do realise people have had clots after Pfizer as well? And unfortunately young healthy people die sudden unexpected deaths each year.
One person suffering a brain haemorrhage is not a large statistic. I understand your worry. But when they are vaccinating SO many people there are going to be a small amount who suffer from a complication as well as coincidental deaths and illnesses.

I personally think threads like this are irresponsible.
None of us knows the answer here, you must have known that?

@Bluenightowl " I need to be here to see my kids grow up. That’s all I care about. "

Yeah and the rest of us don't? what a crock of shit stirring, scare mongering crap. You've handily ignored all the posts about it being lower risk than general population and Pfizer havent you? I wonder why.

It's political, the EU wants to bash our vaccine cos they didn't order enough doses (of ANY vaccine) in time so are now looking for a scapegoat. This post and the Op posting all over Mumsnet is also, I think, politically motivated to cause unease and alarm.

I also think people don’t pay attention to the side effects of every day medicines/contraception/ other vaccines they have without thought.
Because these vaccines have been so publicly followed due to the incredible work that’s been put into them, it’s like everyone thinks they’re an expert. And seems to think this is the only kind of medical intervention that comes with risk.

@Cushionsnotpillows agreed. Lost all sympathy. Clearly the rest of us don’t give a shit about seeing our children grow up.

@Bluenightowl

It isn't nonsense. 9 second doses of AZ have been given in Spain and a woman with no underlying health issues has died from a brain hemorrhage.

It was found in a routine CT scan. She oy died in surgery when the doctors tried to fix it. It’s widely believed the hospital reported it as a covid symptom to avoid or delay a lawsuit.

It was found in a routine CT scan. She oy died in surgery when the doctors tried to fix it. It’s widely believed the hospital reported it as a covid symptom to avoid or delay a lawsuit.

Where did you read this?

@Bluenightowl

It was found in a routine CT scan. She oy died in surgery when the doctors tried to fix it. It’s widely believed the hospital reported it as a covid symptom to avoid or delay a lawsuit.

Where did you read this?

Various non-Spanish European papers.

OP - I am sorry but a doctor in the US also died from a brain haemorridge after Pzifer. His wife is still telling people to go ahead with the jab as she feels as a doctor he would still support that. There is a risk with all vaccines but on the whole the odds of dying from a vaccine are lower than the odds of dying from covid. Also the chances of developing clots because of Covid are extensive and proven.

I think the Independent also ran a story yesterday if you need something in English. She def died after being operated on - that’s something all papers agree on.

She went to hospital the same day as the vaccination with symptoms - that kind of speed of side effects is too fast compared to those studied in the USA where it took several days for clotting and bleeding problems to manifest. The poor woman wasn’t taken seriously by that hospital at all.

@ittakes2

OP - I am sorry but a doctor in the US also died from a brain haemorridge after Pzifer. His wife is still telling people to go ahead with the jab as she feels as a doctor he would still support that. There is a risk with all vaccines but on the whole the odds of dying from a vaccine are lower than the odds of dying from covid. Also the chances of developing clots because of Covid are extensive and proven.

Yes. In Spain there have been more clots and deaths associated with Yellow Fever vaccines than Covid-19.

All from the comments under this article:

blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/16/what-is-going-on-with-the-astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine#comment-340455

There are >50 cases of idiopatic thrombocytopenia in US after Pfizer or Moderna. All after dose 1. We didn’t suspend vaccination for that. We learned how to treat them and no one has died after case 1.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.26132?af=R

If COVID-19 – which so far has killed 1 in 500 of the entire UK population – is a “minor killer” in your loopy view, I wonder what that makes the 1-in-a-million events that have caused this mess in Europe.

As pointed out today, the incidence of blood clots due to contraceptive tablets is 1 in 1000.

The current data from the UK to the end of February is just over 3 clots per 1m doses for each of the A-Z and Pfizer vaccines (about 10m of each). Death rates slightly higher post injection with the A-Z vaccine, but this tends to be used much more in nursing homes and sicker patients who cannot visit centres or GPs.

If there is an increased risk of this particular clotting condition, it needs to be investigated against all vaccines. The UK dataset on possible adverse reactions following vaccinations is good in that it has vaccinated approx 11m people with EACH Pfizer/BioNtec and Oxford/AZ.

As far as I can tell, 19 thrombotic events reported for AZ, 18 for Pfizer:

See for yourselves: page 60 for Pfizer: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968413/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print__2.pdf

Pages 62 for AZ: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968414/COVID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

Very old people more likely to have had received AZ due to being easier to use in care home settings.

Also note, J&J did report 2 thrombotic events in its vaccinated people. -but as others have pointed out, it’s at a lower risk level than the contraceptive pill even if these events (in one vaccine or more) were to be attributed to it/them.

Well I am reading & listening to things and until I hear that having the AZ vaccine is the equivalent to standing in front of a dalek & saying Davros is a wuss , I am going for the 2nd. DH just said to me - with a sort of Gordon Bennett look on his face ( me having shown some things on this thread ) the chances of leaving DC parentless are higher without the vaccine than with it ( he did Maths so understands probability ) - I think that comes under the aegis of "No Shit Sherlock" - I probably should not say that - but @Bluenightowl I did react to your comment about you need to be there for your children. We all do.

also here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

to all who have AZ - I shall be going for my second - I hope no-one reading is put off. Obviously personal choice.

Basilisk

@minchinfin thank you my post was clearly not as learned nor researched as yours

chances of leaving DC parentless are higher without the vaccine than with it this is it for me - can't wait for the second

OP - I think you should make an appt with your GP

By then we should know if mixing vaccines is more effective. It looks like it at the moment, but time will tell

I don't see it as a cherry at all, more like a poisoned chalice to be honest.

Really?

Well can my husband have your vaccine? He is 37 and was in hospital last week with double pneumonia from covid. He is being monitored today as the worsening symptoms he has now could be from blood clots.
You have a higher risk of blood clots from covid than the covid vaccine.

It’s not scaremongering. Norwegian doctors are now saying they have found the link. The AZ vaccine is causing these blood conditions and it’s to do with immune response after the vaccine. Yes of course it’s a tiny risk, but not nonsense no.