EU threatening to cut off supply of vaccines to UK

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

Because they've not got enough apparently (despite the fact that they've got a shit load of AZ stockpiled because they've mostly stopped using it)

This is really starting to piss me off now, and has someone who is due 2nd Pfizer jab in 8 weeks in starting to worry I won't get it!

They're threatening to stop supply to USA too.

Wankers

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ursula-von-der-leyen-threatens-cut-off-covid-exports-uk-b924652.html

Apologies if link to this article has already been posted, if it has I haven't spotted it.

It's worth reading the whole short piece, not just the title, and looking for words like "reciprocity"..

www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-coronavirus-vaccine-exports-eu-fair-share/

However the threat still stands with eu to block any exports to any country they don't feel worthy enough

Why are seemingly intelligent people repeating such misinformation?

The EU has said it will block vaccine exports to countries that block exports to them.

The U.K. government hasn’t banned vaccine exports. But under the contracts it signed with vaccine providers, it has locked in first-come, first-served agreements that have bolstered its vaccination campaign
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Wednesday that the EU might tighten its export ban to stop sending vaccines to countries that weren’t selling vaccines to the bloc and were ahead on vaccination campaigns. As Britain has been by far the top vaccination recipient—with 10 million doses sold to the U.K. since late January—Ms. von der Leyen said Britain was one country it wanted to see reciprocity from

The EU has exported 40 million vaccine doses since January, making the bloc the top global vaccine exporter, despite its difficulties procuring and delivering vaccines

EU/UK relations are plummeting so if anyone is expecting to holiday in europe this year, forget it, we wont be in the CV passport scheme & anything we introduce, wont be recognised by the EU.

I've read the article. I remain bewildered, both that the EU thinks that vaccines manufactured by private companies on EU soil are theirs to distribute, and also at the demand for reciprocity.

As I understand it, companies manufacturing within the UK are distributing in accordance with their commercial agreements, and the UK has put no block on these. Indeed, the components of the Pfizer vaccine which are made in by Croda in Yorkshire continue to travel unimpeded across the Channel.

The EU seems to be saying that other countries should share doses which they have bought and paid for, because otherwise it's not fair. Whilst I can see the moral argument - that's why I very much support Covax - I can't see the commercial one.

It seems to me that if the EU wants to move from a commercially driven model, where private companies make stuff and sell it to customers, to one where vaccines are a communal common-good to be distributed according to fairness and need, then they would not be net benificiaries. Rather, vaccine supplies would be diverted from both the EU and the UK to places in Africa and South America which are suffering hugely. Ethically, I like this model, a lot. It's what the WHO have been arguing for. But I don't think it's what the EU are saying.

The EU position not global fairness of distribution. Rather, it's the EU arguing that the UK should share the vaccines it has bought with them. They're asking for help. So they could, you know, try asking nicely. Rather than threatening to take. Because the logical next step of that approach is for the UK to block exports of essential Pfizer components from Yorkshire to the EU. And that tit for tat approach just means noone gets any vaccine.

@jasjas1973

However the threat still stands with eu to block any exports to any country they don't feel worthy enough

Why are seemingly intelligent people repeating such misinformation?

The EU has said it will block vaccine exports to countries that block exports to them.

The U.K. government hasn’t banned vaccine exports. But under the contracts it signed with vaccine providers, it has locked in first-come, first-served agreements that have bolstered its vaccination campaign
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Wednesday that the EU might tighten its export ban to stop sending vaccines to countries that weren’t selling vaccines to the bloc and were ahead on vaccination campaigns. As Britain has been by far the top vaccination recipient—with 10 million doses sold to the U.K. since late January—Ms. von der Leyen said Britain was one country it wanted to see reciprocity from

The EU has exported 40 million vaccine doses since January, making the bloc the top global vaccine exporter, despite its difficulties procuring and delivering vaccines

EU/UK relations are plummeting so if anyone is expecting to holiday in europe this year, forget it, we wont be in the CV passport scheme & anything we introduce, wont be recognised by the EU.

Really? That would be crazy wouldn’t it given how much U.K. tourists spend on travel in EU

@jasjas1973

However the threat still stands with eu to block any exports to any country they don't feel worthy enough

Why are seemingly intelligent people repeating such misinformation?

The EU has said it will block vaccine exports to countries that block exports to them.

The U.K. government hasn’t banned vaccine exports. But under the contracts it signed with vaccine providers, it has locked in first-come, first-served agreements that have bolstered its vaccination campaign
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Wednesday that the EU might tighten its export ban to stop sending vaccines to countries that weren’t selling vaccines to the bloc and were ahead on vaccination campaigns. As Britain has been by far the top vaccination recipient—with 10 million doses sold to the U.K. since late January—Ms. von der Leyen said Britain was one country it wanted to see reciprocity from

The EU has exported 40 million vaccine doses since January, making the bloc the top global vaccine exporter, despite its difficulties procuring and delivering vaccines

EU/UK relations are plummeting so if anyone is expecting to holiday in europe this year, forget it, we wont be in the CV passport scheme & anything we introduce, wont be recognised by the EU.

Thats the latest change in wording block exports to countries to make vaccines and don't share.

The original law passed to block exports doesn't say that.
Its says block 3rd countries outside of the eu.
I think Australia for example is starting to set up production of az over there but takes time same with Canada.
So both are reliant on eu exports as they have no manufacturing capabilities yet to make vaccines on home ground.
Italy blocked 250k az does that Australia had brought and paid for.
Australia has no vaccines to share with EU.

@Motorina

I've read the article. I remain bewildered, both that the EU thinks that vaccines manufactured by private companies on EU soil are theirs to distribute, and also at the demand for reciprocity.

As I understand it, companies manufacturing within the UK are distributing in accordance with their commercial agreements, and the UK has put no block on these. Indeed, the components of the Pfizer vaccine which are made in by Croda in Yorkshire continue to travel unimpeded across the Channel.

The EU seems to be saying that other countries should share doses which they have bought and paid for, because otherwise it's not fair. Whilst I can see the moral argument - that's why I very much support Covax - I can't see the commercial one.

It seems to me that if the EU wants to move from a commercially driven model, where private companies make stuff and sell it to customers, to one where vaccines are a communal common-good to be distributed according to fairness and need, then they would not be net benificiaries. Rather, vaccine supplies would be diverted from both the EU and the UK to places in Africa and South America which are suffering hugely. Ethically, I like this model, a lot. It's what the WHO have been arguing for. But I don't think it's what the EU are saying.

The EU position not global fairness of distribution. Rather, it's the EU arguing that the UK should share the vaccines it has bought with them. They're asking for help. So they could, you know, try asking nicely. Rather than threatening to take. Because the logical next step of that approach is for the UK to block exports of essential Pfizer components from Yorkshire to the EU. And that tit for tat approach just means noone gets any vaccine.

Yes agree with this

Commercial to state controlled / political would make me look elsewhere for contracts

People are just willfully ignoring that these are private business' fulfilling commercial contracts now and not state owned vaccines being given by the eu. It must be deliberate because it's been explained many times.

The European Commission’s threat to block exports of Covid vaccines to countries with higher vaccination rates, including Britain, has won backing from Germany, France and Italy, EU officials and diplomats have said.

Reuters reports:

The head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, threatened on Wednesday to ban exports of vaccines to safeguard scarce doses for its own citizens facing a third wave of the pandemic.

At a meeting of EU diplomats that took place shortly after von der Leyen’s warning, Germany, Italy, France and Denmark supported the Commission’s stance on a tougher application of export controls, three diplomats and officials who attended the meeting or were briefed about it, said.

The Netherlands, Belgium and Ireland were more cautious, two of the officials said, adding a discussion on the matter will be held at a summit of EU leaders next week. “It’s all stemming from a growing frustration with AstraZeneca and being under increased pressure to do something about it. We don’t have enough vaccines, we export like crazy without getting anything,” said one of the diplomats who participated in the discussions.

A first shipment to Australia of AstraZeneca vaccines was blocked earlier in March by Italy, in agreement with the EU Commission. All other requests have so far been approved for a total of over 40 million shots exported to dozens of countries since 30 January.

That’s interesting- I think the EU is simply threatening, and we should wait to see what their regulations say. To use the powers suggested is arguably worse diplomatically than triggering the restrictions in the protocol.

Britain needs to keep its supply chains separate, working with India and the US. Ignoring the EU is probably all that can be done.

@Baileysforchristmas

Our hospitalisations and deaths have fallen dramatically in recent weeks, thats down to our fantastic NHS run vaccination program.... meanwhile, europeans are dying in their '000s..... why on earth do you think they should prioritize vaccine for the UK ?

If the situation was reversed, would you still be happy to allow vaccine supplies to be sent to Europe?
No, there would be a national outcry and demands to requisition vaccines.
i think europe has acted extremely reasonably toward vaccine exports, considering where they are.

Listening to R4, seems the delays in the AZ supply from India, is that India has decided it needs those vaccines more than we do.

Really? That would be crazy wouldn’t it given how much U.K. tourists spend on travel in EU

UK tourist numbers won't be what they were and the EU will have differing rules for 3rd countries, as they did last, UK tourists could visit because we were in transition.

As we aren't going to be included in a EU CV passport scheme, how exactly will we be able to prove our CV status?

We were asked and UK said no.

EU/UK relations are plummeting so if anyone is expecting to holiday in europe this year, forget it, we wont be in the CV passport scheme & anything we introduce, wont be recognised by the EU.

Portugal has already announced that Brits are welcome whether or not they've been vaccinated, based on testing. The tourism minster was on R4 this morning.

@Motorina

I've read the article. I remain bewildered, both that the EU thinks that vaccines manufactured by private companies on EU soil are theirs to distribute, and also at the demand for reciprocity.

As I understand it, companies manufacturing within the UK are distributing in accordance with their commercial agreements, and the UK has put no block on these. Indeed, the components of the Pfizer vaccine which are made in by Croda in Yorkshire continue to travel unimpeded across the Channel.

The EU seems to be saying that other countries should share doses which they have bought and paid for, because otherwise it's not fair. Whilst I can see the moral argument - that's why I very much support Covax - I can't see the commercial one.

It seems to me that if the EU wants to move from a commercially driven model, where private companies make stuff and sell it to customers, to one where vaccines are a communal common-good to be distributed according to fairness and need, then they would not be net benificiaries. Rather, vaccine supplies would be diverted from both the EU and the UK to places in Africa and South America which are suffering hugely. Ethically, I like this model, a lot. It's what the WHO have been arguing for. But I don't think it's what the EU are saying.

The EU position not global fairness of distribution. Rather, it's the EU arguing that the UK should share the vaccines it has bought with them. They're asking for help. So they could, you know, try asking nicely. Rather than threatening to take. Because the logical next step of that approach is for the UK to block exports of essential Pfizer components from Yorkshire to the EU. And that tit for tat approach just means noone gets any vaccine.

The EU is proposing to use powers under art 122 of the TFEU. It isn't a question of "fairness" or "distribution" at all, but of protecting supply within the EU. I think its been used once before in the 1970s oil crisis. I'm not an EU lawyer, but I suppose if the EU was getting a "fair share" (whatever that means), the necessary conditions for triggering the article would not exist.

Triggering art 122 is a matter of EU law and is entirely separate to the underlying commercial contracts/distribution, governed by national law. Those contracts would probably be frustrated (= impossible to perform) by any triggering of art 122. If so, the sellers would then, I suppose, look around for replacement sale contracts which would not breach the export ban - ie, sell within the EU.

Not sure why UK would want to do a tit for tat on the Pfizer ingredients - its not as if we can use them here (?), and it seems terribly shortsighted as a strategy. But I think UK did impose export bans on PPE at the start of the pandemic.

@TheMancunianCandidate PPE export ban ? What PPE ???? We didn't have enough to give staff one each.

I don't think the uk should or would do a tit for tat reaction. I should imagine we like the rest of the world would just watch slack jawed as they went down this path and destroyed international businesses confidence in operating out of the eu ever again.

Let's hope this is crazy posturing because it seems like an insane course of action

@jasjas1973

Really? That would be crazy wouldn’t it given how much U.K. tourists spend on travel in EU

UK tourist numbers won't be what they were and the EU will have differing rules for 3rd countries, as they did last, UK tourists could visit because we were in transition.

As we aren't going to be included in a EU CV passport scheme, how exactly will we be able to prove our CV status?

We were asked and UK said no.

Portugal has said today UK people are welcome to travel from the 17th of may with pcr or vaccination. Iceland (I know it's not europe but does what europe says regarding this) has also announced British as well as American or anyone non - eu is welcome Some areas of spain have only British tourism, when we entered 2nd lockdown many areas were reopening for the British tourism, as soon as the 2nd lockdown was announced they shut down.

@Haffiana

We dont have enough vaccine to export.

So, back to the actual subject of this tread - why do we imagine that the EU have vaccine to export to us?

Agan, the UK does not own the vaccine made in the UK - it has a contract for some of it, currently all of it, though Ireland were offered some and Covax have been promised some soon.

The EU does not own the vaccine made in the EU. Many countries have a contract with the manufacturers.

As we, you and I specifically, have exchanged posts before, the contents of those contracts differ.

The EU is placed at a disadvantage with its contract with AZ.

The UK is placed at precisely the same disadvantage with its contract wth the factory in India.

The difference in contracts seems to be deliberate on behalf of the UK and something of a surprise to certain members of the EU and constitient countries.

And THAT is what all of this is about really! Poorly understood contracts rattled into a fury by shiot journalism and some, very few, but some politicians making bad judgements wehn posturing ont he world stage. They have to be bad as they in the recent past made both Johnson and The Goviot look positively statesmanlike!

But I think UK did impose export bans on PPE at the start of the pandemic. Sort of. Like many countries we had an export ban on PPE exports when there was none to be had anywhere. So any that were in a country, any country, were used in that country for a few week/months.

And then all the "It's PPE Jim, but not as we know it" imports from countries whoe manufacturers may, or may not, have been trying to help/bandwagneering.

Like then the issue is lack of comonent parts. So there will be similar embargoes on some products, that look like export bans but will, in some cases, be steps to esure the components can be made, for everyone, every country!

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheMancunianCandidate PPE export ban ? What PPE ???? We didn't have enough to give staff one each. [/quote]
All the more reason not to export it, I would imagine. Many countries did the same.
I think we also banned export of some meds. I can't remember the details though.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheMancunianCandidate PPE export ban ? What PPE ???? We didn't have enough to give staff one each. [/quote]
This?

nahealthcare.co.uk/blogs/news/uk-bans-ppe-exports-to-countries-outside-the-eu-unless-on-humanitarian-grounds

As a matter of accuracy, it was the EU that imposed a PPE export ban.

www.noerr.com/en/newsroom/news/restrictionsontheexportandmovementofmedicalprotectiveclothingduetocoronaviruswithexceptionsandpriora

Portugal has said today UK people are welcome to travel from the 17th of may with pcr or vaccination.

That’s good. I wouldn’t be surprised if other EU countries followed. We’ll have a large (fully / partially) vaccinated population and a lot of pent up demand. When we can, I think we’ll be strong on providing tourism £ elsewhere. Those that want it will benefit.

[quote Motorina]As a matter of accuracy, it was the EU that imposed a PPE export ban.

www.noerr.com/en/newsroom/news/restrictionsontheexportandmovementofmedicalprotectiveclothingduetocoronaviruswithexceptionsandpriora[/quote]
Yes I thought this too.

And THAT is what all of this is about really! Poorly understood contracts rattled into a fury by shiot journalism and some, very few, but some politicians making bad judgements wehn posturing ont he world stage. They have to be bad as they in the recent past made both Johnson and The Goviot look positively statesmanlike!

Curious yes totally. It’s worth thinking of it all in terms of commercial contracts first before government control.

Not sure why UK would want to do a tit for tat on the Pfizer ingredients - its not as if we can use them here (?), and it seems terribly shortsighted as a strategy.

It seems the obvious next step to me. If the EU requisitions Pfizer vaccines made for the UK market, then it is really the only leverage that the UK has.

I hope cooler heads prevail. I hope vaccine - and vaccine materials - continue to cross the channel (and wider, of course) in accordance with agreed contracts, so much as manufacturing headaches allow. But it's not looking promising at the moment.