EU threatening to cut off supply of vaccines to UK

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

Because they've not got enough apparently (despite the fact that they've got a shit load of AZ stockpiled because they've mostly stopped using it)

This is really starting to piss me off now, and has someone who is due 2nd Pfizer jab in 8 weeks in starting to worry I won't get it!

They're threatening to stop supply to USA too.

Wankers

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ursula-von-der-leyen-threatens-cut-off-covid-exports-uk-b924652.html

Eg back in the 90s I worked as a scuba instructor in a developing nation. It was lucrative tourism business and no nationals were qualified to do the work. We were paid well compared to nowadays in the industry and I and many others I'm sure tried to help and subsidise nationals training up and into the profession.

Now 20-30 years on plenty of nationals have qualified, started dive centres, up skilled in marketing and customer services and business management and there are less jobs for foreigners and tighter rules for working permits and fees to pay for hiring foreigners.

Totally normal. In that country to hire a foreigner you have to demonstrate a need and why you can't use a local and you have to pay for the workers permit and working visa. Basically encouraging people to hire locally where possible.

Why not?

Of course you can travel and work in Europe but if you're unskilled and don't bring something that a local can't why should you take a job?

And let's face it we didn't do well on that front. There are nations in Eastern Europe where education even to post grad level is free or highly subsidised but the job market is small.

That's a pretty one way street leading to cheap overqualified staff sourced from abroad at the expense of British youngsters and also it allows uk gov to continue to underfund and overcharge for he. If we can't import nurses cheaply from abroad with other countries having paid for their training then we should see nhs bursaries coming back and our own young people being able to train.

It sounds like nationalism and is very unfashionable but of course we should invest in education and training for British youngsters rather than try to save a buck by just recruiting from other nations.

It was a very privileged few who got to access Erasmus and overseas uni whilst the majority suffered from a lack of domestic investment in he and professional training. Trying to get a place on a medical degree is a nightmare for uk students because overseas students pay more.

This idea that brexit has robbed young people of opportunities is very alien to most

This may be of interest.
www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/world/europe/eu-exports-covid-vaccine.html

@Goldieloxx

I don't blame them, I am 40, no underlying health conditions and have had mine, whereas Germany has only done the over 80s. I'd rather someone vulnerable in the EU had mine, I didn't need it quickly, but usual British exceptionalism at play, no wonder the rest of the world hates us. Snd we'd still be better off if we were in the EU, this media shit stirring doesn't remove the fact it was a catastrophic decision to leave

So if you didn’t need it the. Why did you take it ? You could have refused it and said I won’t Til someone in Germany in their 80s has had theirs. There are people in munsner in 1-9 groups that haven’t had theirs. They could have had your vaccine. Bit selfish of you saying I didn’t need it as someone else would need it more ... and yet have it

[quote SummerBody1]This may be of interest.
www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/world/europe/eu-exports-covid-vaccine.html[/quote]
That article suffers from the same misconception that I've seen repeatedly in discussions about this.

The EU has not exported ANY doses, because the doses that the EU owns have been used - entirely reasonably - on their citizens.

Instead, companies whose manufacture is based in the EU have sold and exported doses to overseas companies, to fulfill valid and legal contracts.

This is not an example of EU altruism. These are private companies selling a product for profit.

One question I have is this - if the EU blocks vaccine exports, what happens to those doses? They no longer belong to Pfizer - they've been sold. They belong to the customer. Will the EU requisition them, anyway? Or will they just sit in a warehouse, blocked from export but not available for use?

I'm really sorry. I'm still very confused. What exactly is the problem?

BBC

Article above, Explains it as all sorts of reasons: India, EU Ursula von Leyer saying she won't allow dispatches of vaccine from EU, and other reasons.

It's not clear to me what exactly the problem is.

@Oblomov21

I'm really sorry. I'm still very confused. What exactly is the problem?

BBC

Article above, Explains it as all sorts of reasons: India, EU Ursula von Leyer saying she won't allow dispatches of vaccine from EU, and other reasons.

It's not clear to me what exactly the problem is.

Usual brexiteer nonsense

EU something stereotypically slightly racist and/or bullying narrative against plucky Britain

They have a formula that works for the gullible

If the EU does block exports it won’t be for them to sit in a warehouse - it will be to use them to vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly in the EU. The companies will still get paid so I doubt they will care where the vaccine goes as long as the money pours in. It’s vaccine nationalism but this is also what the U.K. are engaging with no export of vaccinations.

The U.K. is now reporting vaccinating those who are not vulnerable and under 50. The EU has many vulnerable and elderly not vaccinated. This move would likely save many lives if it were to go ahead.

It seems from the U.K. perspective the biggest upset is that they won’t be able to win the race to come first in vaccinating their nation and showing how awesome they are and how great Brexit is and how crap the EU are and bury the absolute shambles they made of the pandemic right up to when they started to vaccinate.

Personally as someone in the EU I would back a move to give the U.K. enough vaccines to do their second doses only and then use all other vaccines on the vulnerable in EU.

The EU is also entering a third wave where many many die and hospitals become over whelmed whereas in the U.K. case numbers and deaths have dropped significantly. All the more reason to ensure vaccines get in EU arms. If this block is the only way to do it so be if

@EpiphanySoul1

If the EU does block exports it won’t be for them to sit in a warehouse - it will be to use them to vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly in the EU. The companies will still get paid so I doubt they will care where the vaccine goes as long as the money pours in. It’s vaccine nationalism but this is also what the U.K. are engaging with no export of vaccinations.

The U.K. is now reporting vaccinating those who are not vulnerable and under 50. The EU has many vulnerable and elderly not vaccinated. This move would likely save many lives if it were to go ahead.

It seems from the U.K. perspective the biggest upset is that they won’t be able to win the race to come first in vaccinating their nation and showing how awesome they are and how great Brexit is and how crap the EU are and bury the absolute shambles they made of the pandemic right up to when they started to vaccinate.

Personally as someone in the EU I would back a move to give the U.K. enough vaccines to do their second doses only and then use all other vaccines on the vulnerable in EU.

The EU is also entering a third wave where many many die and hospitals become over whelmed whereas in the U.K. case numbers and deaths have dropped significantly. All the more reason to ensure vaccines get in EU arms. If this block is the only way to do it so be if

I thought the issue was India supply.

Which isn’t to do with blocking by EU

Personally as someone in the EU I would back a move to give the U.K. enough vaccines to do their second doses only and then use all other vaccines on the vulnerable in EU.

But they're not the EU's vaccines to give. They're the property first of the company that made them, and then of the customer that bought them.

Unless you're advocating governments being able to requisition private property on the basis of, "we really really need it". Which strikes me as a dangerous route to go down.

Factories based in the EU regions are not EU factories. Why is that so difficult to understand for some?

They are private businesses that have been assured by EU countries that it is the best and most economically suitable place for them to build their factories etc that their laws are to be trusted etc.

The EU have been talking as if they're an untrustworthy regime - companies will think why would I base future companies in that region when the shit hits the fan the laws can be shifted.

Their behaviour in a pandemic regarding vaccine safety etc is dangerous. Their talk of deciding if companies are "allowed" to fulfil their orders from countries that invested earlier and more generously in production line issues etc.

It is dangerous games, even if it is a war of words at the moment - it doesn't matter.

UK law is respected as the best in the world - particularly contract law. The world is watching and the EU are behaving in an unforgiveable way. Their procurement and investment in vaccine development and production at the start was inadequate.

Companies won't trust the EU region, why would they - EU have shown exactly what they are when the chips are down.

The problem is even if the Uk gave all our AZ vaccines to the EU, Europeans don’t trust it now they don’t want it, it will just sit in fridges until it goes out of date and then no one is vaccinated, it’s absolute madness. The EU countries need to make up their minds if they think it’s safe or not and stop sending mixed messages, I predict there will be another health scare that will stop the rollout again, that will again be proved over exaggerated

@MarshaBradyo the thread is literally called EU blocking vaccines to the U.K.

@Motorina for vaccines specifically yes

Precisely, @Marmaladeagain.

[quote EpiphanySoul1]@MarshaBradyo the thread is literally called EU blocking vaccines to the U.K.

@Motorina for vaccines specifically yes[/quote]
Oh right we’ve moved on in the news.

It’s about India supply causing issues.

Fortunately the pro-blockers are less relevant

The facts as it stands

The UK government is not being transparent with how much stock we have or how much is due to be delivered by end of quarter 1 or where its all coming from.
I had no idea we were getting stocks from India to the UK.
I thought we got some initial stock from az Europe before uk factories were set up.
No idea how much the uk produces.
We know uk has actually sent vaccines to channel Island and British territory like the Falkland and Gibraltar.
I belive Gibraltar are sharing vaccines with Spanish that work in Gibraltar.
I think behind scenes we agreed to help Ireland.
Don't think Ireland agreed they would want vaccines from uk they might accept 10million az Biden has sitting in a factory.

I thought we were relying on European production for pfizer and moderna both made in eu or bottled in the eu.
Canada Mexico and Australia reliant in eu as they don't have up a and running factories producing vast quantity and American won't export yet EU seem fine with that.

I don't know if EU or AZ being totally transparently either

Az deny issues with uk az amounts so the shortages must be pfizer.

Today the EMA meet to discuss AZ safety will the counties who suspended again suddenly start using again next week and seize all az and pfizer for the block?

The problem is even if the Uk gave all our AZ vaccines to the EU, Europeans don’t trust it now they don’t want it,

Thats both childish stereotyping and factually incorrect.

Hi TheHoneyBadger - time for work but just for the record your initial post was you can see essentially no negative impact of leaving the EU - when I then stated the immediate obvious one we can’t now live and work in the EU freely you then immediately changed ground. To why you think this was always a bad idea (mainly for its impact on the EU!) and valueless. So it it is a negative clear immediate impact on every UK citizen but just not one you think we should have ... You have every right to your opinion that you are happy to make the trade off but you don’t have a right to say there is no actual bad impact on real people. Every unskilled person lost their right to live and work in the eu on Jan 1st. You should try telling the no negative impact on them to a sixth form Of British london teenagers - you can argue that it was less important than other things or they should never been allowed to in the first place - but if you tell them that they have officially lost nothing as you claimed they might being young say very directly that you are not telling the truth. Just claim brexit honestly - pros and cons and for you all the pros outweigh already the actual cons.

And back to the original post it looks like the news now saying supply Disruption is India not EU which might disappoint some people here who are stop desperate to show that the EU is wicked as opposed to as promised delivering on everything is wonderful in independent U.K. and the EU are irrelevant

@Dg390

And back to the original post it looks like the news now saying supply Disruption is India not EU which might disappoint some people here who are stop desperate to show that the EU is wicked as opposed to as promised delivering on everything is wonderful in independent U.K. and the EU are irrelevant

Its a separate issue as udvl threats and reduction in supply announce same day. No i don't think reduction in supply in uk is down to eu I feel sure the UK government make that known if was the case.

The current issue may well be India I had no idea the uk was getting vaccines from India.

However the threat still stands with eu to block any exports to any country they don't feel worthy enough.
They also appear to be getting lots from India so will they get mad with India next?

Surely there are two seperate issues?

The unpredictable supply (from all manufacturers, to all markets, inspite of what UvdL has sometimes stated) which is an inevitable part of an entirely new and finicky manufacturing process.

The EU's response, which is to threaten to requisition product already sold to overseas customers, on the basis that 'it's made on our territory and we need it'. An action which @EpiphanySoul1 would support.

The first is difficult and frustrating for everyone.

The second is a power grab, which threatens to undermine confidence in the EU as a safe place to set up manufacturing.

@Motorina

Surely there are two seperate issues?

The unpredictable supply (from all manufacturers, to all markets, inspite of what UvdL has sometimes stated) which is an inevitable part of an entirely new and finicky manufacturing process.

The EU's response, which is to threaten to requisition product already sold to overseas customers, on the basis that 'it's made on our territory and we need it'. An action which @EpiphanySoul1 would support.

The first is difficult and frustrating for everyone.

The second is a power grab, which threatens to undermine confidence in the EU as a safe place to set up manufacturing.

You are totally correct.

Vaccines are not as straightforward as producing cars.
A the vaccine companies has issues upscaling production and meeting demand.

The press conference yesterday was earlier in the day before it was announced reduction in supply and slowdown of vaccination within the UK.

Theres cause and effect.

The issue for eu is they are
In 3rd wave
They don't have enough vaccines
That they do have they either suspended or limited use or struggled to mass vaccinate on some member states at speed.
Time is the issue here and I fear reading new York Times article janson may have issues if they asking for additional loan .

So the effect is more nationalistic rhetoric and angry words and threats.
So far they haven't taken any vaccin company to court

@Motorina

Surely there are two seperate issues?

The unpredictable supply (from all manufacturers, to all markets, inspite of what UvdL has sometimes stated) which is an inevitable part of an entirely new and finicky manufacturing process.

The EU's response, which is to threaten to requisition product already sold to overseas customers, on the basis that 'it's made on our territory and we need it'. An action which @EpiphanySoul1 would support.

The first is difficult and frustrating for everyone.

The second is a power grab, which threatens to undermine confidence in the EU as a safe place to set up manufacturing.

Yes I agree it damages commercial confidence (even when at cost)

The April reduction in supply is nothing to do with the EU and has been known about for a while before VdL made these latest comments: twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1371178161510170624?s=19

The timing is a coincidence and a gift to certain areas of the media who will happily (if falsely) conflate the two.