Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

Belgium just suspended until the report tomorrow, if I've understood the news correctly.

@HappyHill

If you check the Norwegian press you will find the issue is three health workers are in hospital with blood clots and low count of platelets. Similar in Austria. So its not just an issue of blood clots and statistics per million which can hide facts, its about a cluster which is unusual with blood clots and also low platelets which is a known side effect and caused the death of doctor in US and seen as one of the adverse events recorded.

This is what I heard on the radio(in Ireland) about half an hour ago. It was 3 things, blood clots, low platelets, and hemorrhaging together. I was making dinner so only half listening but the Norwegian speaking said that it was unusual to find all 3 together, then for it to happen to 4(I think) relatively young people all after having the AZ vaccine warrents checking. It just a case of DVT.

It wasn't just a case of DVT, I wish there was an edit button.

On the other hand, online the news is still NOT suspending.

One of the healthcare workers in Norway has died

*....Not the stories in the press. Government response, medical reporting...

If the two vaccines elicit the same response then why the difference in government reactions?*

Optics, reporting in the popular Press and public grumbles feeding back up the political chain?

I can only comment on the French situation but here for some weeks now, believe it or not, the politicians have been keen to push that there was no problem with "the AZ" and TV news seemed to making a point of showing AZ vials being used....

I think at some point today however the MSM stories about specifically the AZ vaccinations being stopped in other countries began to gain ground.

I think the idea of the 24 hour halt is so the French government can say :"we listened to increasing concerns in the media and from the public, we paused, we took/listened to further advice...and now we're going to use the AZ product again.".

That's my theory, it's worth about as much or as little as anybody elses.

@ihatefacemasks

It was drearily inevitable that 'paranoia' about Covid would turn into 'paranoia about Covid vaccines'.

I don't know how some people actually manage to function in real life if so much time is taken up with worrying about minimal risks.

Except the ones who supported the lockdown and were more cautious seem to be the ones saying that they are happy with the vaccine and will have it. Myself included.

Many of the people, who were anti lockdown and calling us all scared rabbits, are the same people who are now saying that they won't have the vaccine because " they want to wait and see" (see what?) and don't need it because they are "low risk".

@QuentinInQuarantino

I'm in Spain and was supposed to have it last week, it got delayed until this week due to a computer error and has now been cancelled. I'm furious!

Sorry to hear that quentin do Spain not have any phizer or moderna instead. Seems like all of Europe are halting az. Saw on you tube Germany only used small % of their az and moderna stocks not sure they used up all their back stock phizer. Least Spain and Portugal doing better with the virus than other countries right now. Hope gets resolved soon.

Just 27 cases out of however many millions. No confirmed link as yet. 1000s of people get blood clots so likely to be a coincidence.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

A few things not quite right there.

Herd immunity can be achieved by a certain percentage of the population being immune - whether through vaccination or recovery from natural infection.

True BUT, immunity derived from exposure to the live virus is likely to be less protective against mutations and less lasting than that derived from a vaccine - there are various reasons for this - if need be I can go into them.

Arguments that people choosing not to have the vaccine are going to cause mutations do not make sense

The greater the number of unvaccinated people in a population with a large number of vaccinations, the greater the chance of a vaccine-resistant mutation arising - your point about children is valid, but assuming a vaccine proves effective in

Notimagain that makes sense, in a politicking way.

Hopefully the shortness of the pause will prove you right!

Thanks for the insight.

the issues currently around AZ are a tiny risk compared to the dangers of CV but that doesn't mean that any potential risks shouldn't be reported or commented on

By Ireland suspending it, they are ignoring the recommendations of EMA.

Sorry to hear that quentin do Spain not have any phizer or moderna instead.

@3asAbird they do but they are doing different groups with different vaccines. Pfizer and moderna are being used for older people and people with health conditions. The AZ with a longer time between doses was/is being given to certain professions (I'm a teacher) due to being able to wait longer between doses and the age thing (that's their reasoning, it varies from community to community).

I'm hoping it'll restart again in a bit.

Thanks notrub At that point I was foccussing mainly on the ever changing nature or knowledge, policies etc.

But it is important not to miss the small bits if disinformation. 😊

@notimagain

*....Not the stories in the press. Government response, medical reporting...

If the two vaccines elicit the same response then why the difference in government reactions?*

Optics, reporting in the popular Press and public grumbles feeding back up the political chain?

I can only comment on the French situation but here for some weeks now, believe it or not, the politicians have been keen to push that there was no problem with "the AZ" and TV news seemed to making a point of showing AZ vials being used....

I think at some point today however the MSM stories about specifically the AZ vaccinations being stopped in other countries began to gain ground.

I think the idea of the 24 hour halt is so the French government can say :"we listened to increasing concerns in the media and from the public, we paused, we took/listened to further advice...and now we're going to use the AZ product again.".

That's my theory, it's worth about as much or as little as anybody elses.

My money would be on the health care professionals rather than politicians.

Once a country has acted in this way, all the rest are under increased pressure to follow suit. The people making the decision are human and subject to human weaknesses, one of which is that people will ALWAYS feel a lot more responsible for ACTION that causes a death, than they do for INACTION that causes a death.

So while logically, if you risk a hundred lives by pausing the vaccinations and risk a handful by carrying on, you'd carry on until you had more evidence... but people don't think like that. NOBODY wants to be the person whom everyone turns to afterwards and says, "Everyone else stopped, WHY DIDN'T YOU?? These deaths are YOUR fault!" So you have a snowball effect as more and more nations follow suit.

@ElleMac44

I think it's a political ploy from the EU, flexing their muscles over Brexit tbh. My in laws in their 70s one had Pfizer and one Oxford and nothing but sore arms. Hubby and I in late 40s both Pfizer and had fluey symptoms for 48 hrs. Other friends and family have had Oxford and no probs whatsoever. Every vaccine no matter what it's for carries a risk. It's the EU spouting clatrap and scaremongering.

This is getting tiresome. It’s not only EU states that have halted use. It’s only a temporary measure whilst they await findings in recent concerns with some batches. Ireland’s roll out is very slow, the decision to halt using this vaccination will not significantly impact what is already a slow roll out. I’m not likely to get my vaccination in Ireland until end of summer at earliest, I’m prepared to wait and see no cause for concern with halting this one vaccine for now. It certainly does not help with public confidence and they decision to halt was are done reluctantly. We’ve had no deaths here in 2 days- yes the roll out is slow but the delay will not likely lead to more deaths.

The Scaremongering is on this thread.

If it makes anyone feel better I know a number of people involved in the first trial for AZ and they have been monitored continuously, no kind of 1 year on side effects.

It is always a difficult balance and has been with the lockdown too - we have caused people to die through having the lockdown rather than lockdown only saves lives.

37 cases in 17 million vaccinated...!

@Alleycat1

Partner and I had AZ on Saturday. We are now taking 75mg of aspirin daily as a precaution.

Would this help ? I’m wondering if I should do this ?

@TadpolesInthe

I would defo not self medicate with aspirin without consulting your GP.

@Alleycat1
It could be dangerous suggesting this on an online forum without knowing your audience

Listen to Radio 4 PM today.

Scientist on there explaining it all far better than anyone here :)

In a nutshell, in that number of people, you'd expect those things to happen anyway and there is no connection with the vaccine.

If you check the Norwegian press you will find the issue is three health workers are in hospital with blood clots and low count of platelets. Similar in Austria. So its not just an issue of blood clots and statistics per million which can hide facts, its about a cluster which is unusual with blood clots and also low platelets which is a known side effect and caused the death of doctor in US and seen as one of the adverse events recorded.

How do we rule out a connection between other factors as healthcare workers and the Covid vaccine? And thereby arrive at the vaccine as being the most probable cause?

@notrub

True BUT, immunity derived from exposure to the live virus is likely to be less protective against mutations and less lasting than that derived from a vaccine - there are various reasons for this - if need be I can go into them.

Please do. I’d like to see evidence for this. 😊

@Kaylasmum49 you’ve already had one thread on this exact issue deleted a week ago - why are you back with the same issue?