Will lots just say 'stuff it' come the 23rd?

[JuneSummer]

It'll soon be a year since lockdown was first called and me and DH have been watching lots of TV coverage over the last few days. It's just dawned on us this week that we have now not seen our parents for a year, the DC haven't hugged their grandparents, we haven't been for any days out as a family, DC1 hasn't had a single uni class in person. The list goes on.

DH and I are now quickly coming to the conclusion that we just cannot and will not go on living like this any longer as a family. Particularly when there seems to be no end in sight if you listen to people like Chris Whitty and Christina Pagel (who was wanting masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future last night on the news).

Both sets of parents are in their mid 60s and have been vaccinated. We are now strongly minded to visit both at the beginning of April and allow them to see their DGC.

I suspect we will not be alone. Will lots of people simply say 'no more' upon realising they've spent a year of their lives not living?

@Rainandsunny Does that include friends who kept voting for disability benefit cuts? Because i dont think its about caring about others at all. Its about being frightened you will catch it off them. Because ppl wernt so bothered about saving lives when it was/is something you cant catch.

@StylishMummy

We've said 'fuck it' since all our parents and grandparents have been vaccinated. I'm CEV and have had 1st vaccinate. We're hosting 4 households for Easter weekend in the house, cannot wait to have the family back together. DC are going to grandparents for sleepovers, we're having friends round and meeting friends and family for walks and at the park. I genuinely don't know a single person who's now following 'the rules'.

That's extremely selfish. Do you not care about the people you are putting at risk with your selfish decisions?

That's extremely selfish. Do you not care about the people you are putting at risk with your selfish decisions?

People have put their lives on hold and made massive sacrifices for a whole year, lost income, homes and livelihoods and they're selfish for not wanting to do it any longer

Is selfish the new "in" word btw? Everyone's throwing it around like confetti

@BonnieDundee

That's extremely selfish. Do you not care about the people you are putting at risk with your selfish decisions?

People have put their lives on hold and made massive sacrifices for a whole year, lost income, homes and livelihoods and they're selfish for not wanting to do it any longer

Is selfish the new "in" word btw? Everyone's throwing it around like confetti

It wasn’t and to a certain extent still isn’t about sacrificing “just” for others

It was about not overwhelming the health service, and therefore impacting everyone and society. Both in terms of health and economy

It’s amazing people still don’t get that a year later. Presume it’s just too big to comprehend. Valid alternatives are never forthcoming

Why would the health service.be overwhelmed now with so many vaccinated? Or is that too big for you to comprehend?

@BonnieDundee

That's extremely selfish. Do you not care about the people you are putting at risk with your selfish decisions?

People have put their lives on hold and made massive sacrifices for a whole year, lost income, homes and livelihoods and they're selfish for not wanting to do it any longer

Is selfish the new "in" word btw? Everyone's throwing it around like confetti

The op has not lost those things and yes, she is being extremely selfish. You can say what you like but IMO she is selfish and that's that.

@BonnieDundee

Why would the health service.be overwhelmed now with so many vaccinated? Or is that too big for you to comprehend?

In the second wave many over 50s were hospitalised despite strict restrictions.

With no restrictions the number even if that age group would grow exponentially.

Then in the vaccinated groups around 20% are still at risk of severe illness. These groups shielded before so were less likely to catch it and now may be out more and more likely to catch it.

None of this is a certainty but it’s worth going slowly for to observe how they nhs is being affected

That was supposed to say under 50s. Sleepy.

@BonnieDundee

Why would the health service.be overwhelmed now with so many vaccinated? Or is that too big for you to comprehend?

Because "so many" is not yet enough. And the protection is not yet fully embedded. And because the unvaccinated groups combined with this can still have a significant impact. As has been explained many many times by those qualified to do so, around the world

Hence the slower unlocking and people asking for patience for a little longer

May be this will sink in

As has been explained many many times by those qualified to do so, around the world

My worry is that the harms of lockdown are being ignored.

Hence the slower unlocking and people asking for patience for a little longer

They have been asking for this for a year.

May be this will sink in

Yes, a year and mistakes have been made. It takes time to get it right.

And the vaccination programme as stated isn't yet fully embedded.

I'm following the rules and intend to continue to do so. Most of the people I know are doing so too.
I'm completely fed up with lockdown. It's bloody hard and I'm really struggling but the rules are there for a damn good reason.
Those people who are breaking lockdown are doing it at everyone else's expense. Those of us who are keeping to the rules are going to have to do it for that much longer because some people have decided the rules don't apply to them. I find it extraordinarily selfish.

Funny how we’ve gone from “but what about the children” to well I’ve had my vaccination so sod any children or unvaccinated adults I may spread it to, i’m OK.

It is not yet established how effective the vaccine is at stopping spread. Until rates come down anyone flouting lockdown risks sending the R rates up and extending the whole shit show.

@BonnieDundee

Why would the health service.be overwhelmed now with so many vaccinated? Or is that too big for you to comprehend?

It may not be "overwhelmed" with Covid patients anymore, but every covid patient is taking a bed away from people with other medical conditions who also need treatment. Non urgent surgery is still being cancelled or massively reduced because there aren't enough "free" ICU beds as some are still occupied by covid patients. The NHS has a massive backlog of treatments/surgery that needs to be done and they can't start to work on the backlog until the number of covid patients in hospitals stands at very low levels. There are still lots of NHS staff that have been redeployed from other areas to work on covid wards etc - their usual work may not be urgent, but lack of routine checks (say diabetic foot checks, diabetic eye tests etc) are going to lead to problems in the future which the NHS will have to spend time/money on treating things that could have been avoided. I think it's you who needs to look at the bigger picture!

@ilovesooty

A year is not a lifetime and even in the worst affected places there was a period, albeit brief, of loosened restrictions last summer.

And as we found out, that brief period of loosened restrictions ended up with exponential growth starting in August and led to the last two lockdowns!

Not to mention the lack of clarity over Christmas, the loosening of restrictions in many areas, the bending of or flouting of the rules and the lockdown that wasn't a proper lockdown last November. And don't get me started on the failure to close the borders and the arsing about with tiers.

It's been handled badly but they have to get a grip on it now and people need to cooperate to ensure that the road map and vaccination programme are as effective as they can be.

@BonnieDundee

As has been explained many many times by those qualified to do so, around the world

My worry is that the harms of lockdown are being ignored.

Hence the slower unlocking and people asking for patience for a little longer

They have been asking for this for a year.

May be this will sink in

The harms of lockdown are not being ignored. I understand it might feel that way but that is because the harm that could be caused by not managing the pandemic have not been fully seen, although what's happened is bad enough Maybe take a look at Europe But you won't

Does that include friends who kept voting for disability benefit cuts? Because i dont think its about caring about others at all. Its about being frightened you will catch it off them. Because ppl wernt so bothered about saving lives when it was/is something you cant catch

Quite. So much of this ‘concern for others people’s health’ is essentially just self-preservation dressed up as altruism and ‘protecting society.’

Quite striking that almost every thread on the Coronavirus topic is now ‘When do I get my vaccine?’; ‘Why haven’t I had my 2nd dose yet?’ ‘I’m over 50 - can I book my jab now?’ ‘Oh no, a vaccine delay - what about the over 40s?!’ Nothing about how the kids are coping now they’re back in school; nothing about the ongoing situation in care homes; nothing about the looming economic crisis; nothing about the NHS’ vast backlog of non-Covid related surgery.

It’s almost as though the majority of people - including those who are quickest to denigrate others as being ‘selfish’ - ultimately care most about their own wellbeing and that of their immediate family...

I think it's pretty insulting to claim sweepingly that the majority of those who think that lockdown should be eased thoughtfully and gradually are motivated purely by fear and their own self preservation.

I believe in social responsibility and the well being of wider society. I want the road map and vaccination programme to be successful and enable society to begin to heal. We all need to play our part in that by not doing our own thing and flouting the rules. I want the economy to begin to heal, pupils to be in school and people to be able to interact safely. I want the NHS to be able to get on with delayed treatments.

And I've always voted to enable the most vulnerable to be included and funded wherever and whenever I could.

Please don't tell me I'm only motivated by my own selfishness and fear. I want this to be done right and I hope that another lockdown won't be necessary.

I think it’s very easy to get caught up in arguing at cross purposes on here, but I’d just counter @ilovesooty’s post by saying that I find it equally insulting that over the past year anyone raising legitimate concerns about the many and varied harms that lockdown has done to specific groups has frequently been shouted down as a rabid Covid Denier.

We will only be able to mitigate these harms if we accept that they exist, but it seems people won’t or can’t do that - instead there has been endless gaslighting, and endless trite pronouncements about ‘resilience’ and ‘adaptability’, particularly in reference to younger people. Not to mention my personal MN favourite of ‘my own kids are fine, so everyone else’s must be too.’ I follow many eminent paediatricians on SM who are aghast at what has been done to children in the name of covid, but many of them acknowledge that they have kept their heads well below the parapet rather than risk being dismissed as anti-lockdowners. Charities, mental health professionals and civil liberties groups have been similarly silenced.

The overwhelming narrative has been of unquestioning acceptance of lockdown and everything it entails to ‘save lives’. There has been little room for nuanced debate. Only now does it seem that many people are waking up to the mental health crisis, the economic fallout, the general loss of condition/cognition in many isolated and elderly people, the disproportionate harm done to certain groups. Only this morning I was listening to a radio phone-in where the host professed to be utterly shocked by the fact that so many kids were returning to school with MH issues - something that comes as little surprise to anyone who has worked with kids.

Personally I have never called for a premature end to lockdown, but rather for greater acknowledgement, especially among society’s more privileged groups, of the damage that is been done. My fear now, given that mainstream discussion is now so dominated by the vaccine rollout, whether we can have holidays etc, is that the privileged groups expect to seamlessly resume ‘business as usual’, while those who have suffered under lockdown are left even further behind. As far as I can see, there appears to be no long or even medium-term plan for how to redress the many societal inequalities that our response to covid has created.

@TempsPerdu i don't see your latest post as inconsistent with what I posted really. You made valid points about the damage that lockdown has caused and the harm to people's well being can't be disregarded. Your thoughtful contribution though is a long way off the people who are simply saying "stuff it - I'll do what I want - we've sacrificed enough - I'm done".

@ilovesooty Yes indeed, and I’m glad we’re broadly in agreement. But I’d add that the thoughtless and dismissive comments have very much been on both sides - ‘All you’re being asked to do is sit at home and watch Netflix’ springs to mind, plus the continual trite references to WW2 and all the stuff about resilience I mentioned above. It’s the lack of nuance in the entire debate that’s been an issue.

And sadly I’m also seeing a lot of hypocrisy among some of the older and hitherto most pro-lockdown people I know who, having now had their jabs, are happy to flout rules, are primarily concerned about where/when they’ll be able to go on holiday and if questioned, assert that life’s not fair and the young and vulnerable need to suck it up. It’s this that makes me somewhat pessimistic about society’s collective will to tackle most of the fallout caused by lockdown.

@TempsPerdu I'd agree absolutely that there have been thoughtless and dismissive comments on both sides and admit I may have made a few myself. They're not helpful whatever direction they come from.

I was appalled to read this morning that one in four of the workforce have had no check ins re their mental health during the past year. No wonder people are struggling.

I'll also admit that for myself the thing I care about most is the freedom to travel and it would be hypocritical to say otherwise but I wouldn't dream of saying it should be stopping the list of what is important in society right now. Even in the context of travel the most important people are those who've lost their livelihoods or are at risk of losing them, not my personal wants.

Look to all of you people thinking it’s okay now because the vulnerable have been vaccinated. I am CEV. Because of my meds I am this way. From other people on the same meds as me who have had antibody test it shows no cover from Covid at all. So everyone like me - thousands, who have been vaccinated have very little or no cover at all.

So no, the vulnerable like me who have shielded have no cover from the vaccine or if anything very very little. It’s ironic the vaccine was made to cover people like me, but ultimately doesn’t give any cover of any. Massive strain still on NHS.