9 out of 20 students in my class are apparently exempt from mask wearing

[Workyticket]

Taught them in a small room with a slit of a window for 1.5 hours

6 of those 9 had chosen not to take a lateral flow test because their Mum said they didn't have to

Schools and colleges are safe though. Apparently

@LolaSmiles

littlepattilou I think the opposite. Now it looks like vaccine passports are going to come into force, they'll be wanting first dibs on a vaccine so they can go abroad for holidays in the summer and complaining if they aren't a priority.

Ha ha ha

Serves them right.

And yeah you're right, these entitled 'I will do what the fuck I want and to hell with everyone else' types will get their come-uppance when they can do fuck-all! Everyone will be going out for meals, and to the cinema, and the theatre, and to concerts, and sports events, and off on holiday abroad, and they won't be allowed. And it will be EVERYONE else's fault but their own.

@noblegiraffe

Are there that many false negatives?

Yes.

You cannot assume that a negative result on an LFT means you don't have covid and should continue to observe all restrictions and mitigation measures.

Oh my gosh I had no idea there are so many false negatives! Why bother testing then? Please can you send me a link to the evidence so I can share?

@noblegiraffe

primarily spread in care homes and the elderly

Secondary kids were the most infected subset of the population just before Christmas. They are now one of the least infected due to school closures, showing that covid was being spread very effectively in secondary schools.

Absolutely Noble. But the point was made in response to the poster who said most of the dead had worn masks....

Personally I think all school students should wear masks, no exemptions. But then maybe that makes me extreme. However, my Italian relatives confirm that they too, like a pp in Spain, do not seem to have such a, what can I say, "exceptionist" society, they are more socially conscious. Just my opinion.

@Vintagevixen

No extra training needed thanks - I have worked in critical care for 25 years and been very senior in my role. Up until last year we were advising visitors with colds or illnesses not to bother to wear masks when visiting because there was no good evidence they did anything to prevent spread!

God help us all!

I’ve read so many comments about reports of a high number of false negatives as well as a high number of false positives.
So basically the tests are completely inaccurate it seems.

chloworm. PCR and LFT have similar levels of false positive. The issue is that LFT have most false negatives, given a false sense of security ie: my LFT said I am negative, therefore I can do whatever I want.

I'm leaving at Easter because of bullshit like this. It has finally opened my eyes to the utterly toxic relationship society has with teachers.

Most people want the best for their precious offspring but not to the extent they actually want to encourage good people into the profession and retain them. They don't want to value them or protect them or treat them as professionals worthy of respect.

They rely on the 'vocation' concept where we effectively sacrifice ourselves on other people's selfishness and stupidity 'for the good of the children' while listening to their fucking endless excuses why their totally average children can't possibly do things that all the other totally average children can do like wear a mask and have a swab test. Why their own piss poor parenting is never the cause of their child's ills, why THEIR child is so special they should get all the rights of society with none of the responsibilities. (Usual MN disclaimer for the tiny % of pupils who genuinely can't, beyond the fact their mum finds it upsetting / their dad is a tinfoil-hat wearing wingnut).

Well, I'm thinking about the good of my own children now, who would quite like to still have a mum and not the exhausted bag of impotent rage I've become. So, good luck colleagues. May the scales fall from your eyes as they've fallen from mine.

I'm good with the vaccine and having it. I'm okay to get a vaccine passport. I understand the need for SD and ventilation. Yet not good with my child being masked. I comply myself with masks in shops and transport, not because I believe they are any use but just to be polite and not get into a debate about what constitutes evidence based interventions in the middle of Marks when all I want to do is pick up my tea!

One can hold different opinions on different aspects of an issue.

I think it is a great pity pro maskers seem to be so nasty about those with a different view. Instead I respect views on both sides and am glad the state has given teenagers a completely free choice as to whether they wear masks.

[quote littlepattilou]@Vintagevixen

No extra training needed thanks - I have worked in critical care for 25 years and been very senior in my role. Up until last year we were advising visitors with colds or illnesses not to bother to wear masks when visiting because there was no good evidence they did anything to prevent spread!

God help us all! [/quote]
I'm pretty good at my job actually, if you need a well managed ITU journey by a very experienced nurse, based on good evidence and practise them I'm your gal! No accidental extubations on my shifts!

In my opinion, again only an opinion, it is still worth having an LFT.

LFT's are picking up some asymptomatic infections. These infections would not be picked up at all, as that person would not go for a PCR without symptoms. So, still helpful in the grand scheme of things.

What I do think is bizarre, is that you cannot confirm positive school taken LFT's with PCR's, only home ones. This becomes a mute point after this week, however, I still don't understand the thinking behind that decision.

It's only on Mumsnet that I see abject panic and hysteria.

You seem to be painting reasonable concerns about an inability to distance yourself from pupils (which you yourself recommend as the main way to protect yourself from covid) as 'abject panic and hysteria'.

Which is odd. Tell people to distance and then say that they're being hysterical when they point out that's not possible?

@BigWoollyJumpers

chloworm. PCR and LFT have similar levels of false positive. The issue is that LFT have most false negatives, given a false sense of security ie: my LFT said I am negative, therefore I can do whatever I want.

OK but please can you post a link to the evidence so I can read and share?

@Xenia

I think it is a great pity pro maskers seem to be so nasty about those with a different view. Instead I respect views on both sides and am glad the state has given teenagers a completely free choice as to whether they wear masks.

I bet you are, given your other views on the pandemic.

@Vintagevixen

I'm good with the vaccine and having it. I'm okay to get a vaccine passport. I understand the need for SD and ventilation. Yet not good with my child being masked. I comply myself with masks in shops and transport, not because I believe they are any use but just to be polite and not get into a debate about what constitutes evidence based interventions in the middle of Marks when all I want to do is pick up my tea!

One can hold different opinions on different aspects of an issue.

I agree with this. I think vaccines are wonderful. I think that increased awareness of keeping distance and hand washing is the best preventative. But I think that masks are purely performative and don't do the good that most people believe they do.

I don't know anyone in real life who has the Mumsnet fervour around mask wearing. They all wear them because they a) feel they have to or b) think they might help a bit but don't actually think they're of much benefit really.

I think the black and white thinking displayed on this forum isn't reflective of society at large. There's also a slurring if anyone who questions the benefits of masks as being "anti-vax".

I am sorry but I applaud them!!!

@noblegiraffe

It's only on Mumsnet that I see abject panic and hysteria.

You seem to be painting reasonable concerns about an inability to distance yourself from pupils (which you yourself recommend as the main way to protect yourself from covid) as 'abject panic and hysteria'.

Which is odd. Tell people to distance and then say that they're being hysterical when they point out that's not possible?

It is possible. You do not need to have children sitting in your lap and whispering in your ear. Even if you are keeping a 1 metre distance the risk is very low. Brushing past other people here and there isn't a huge risk.

Just stay away as best you can and wash your hands and the overwhelming likelihood is you'll be absolutely fine.

I keep my distance. I don't walk around with two 1 metre sticks taped together to check. I know what it's like not to get too close to someone for too long. I had that ability before COVID.

Yes, I respect views on both sides and can see both points of view. People on both sidse are mostly good people with genuine held beliefs and want to help others. Same with most UK voters in elections and referenda. We seem to have lost to an extent the ability to like and respect people with different views. However I understand the horrible impact the CV19 legislation has had on people and the disease itself on those who have suffered from it so not surprisingly a lot of people are very fed up at present and need to take it out on someone. Hitting pillows might be a better idea.

Hopefully by 21 June (freedom day) we might be able to remove every single CV19 legislative measure.

@toolatetofixate its almost a religious fervour sometimes IMO.

I just want academic proof, really definitive proof. I don't take medical interventions that are unproven, I read the research then make my decision as I have done with vaccines and I am happy to take them.

Its the assumption that if you don't believe in masks you also don't believe in vaccines, or are a Covid denier as well that is irritating.

Timbucktime
The way someone put it that made sense to me was this:
Lateral flow tests aren't perfect, far from it. The mistake is that our government seem to selectively misrepresent what they offer and how they can be used.

They aren't a 'GO' tool where a negative result means you don't have covid and can do what you like. That's exactly why the government had to backtrack on their original plan to keep close contacts of positive cases in school and LFT them each day in school.

They are a 'STOP' tool, in that they will pick up a set percentage of people who are covid positive, who would not have gone to a PCR test centre as they aren't displaying symptoms.

The best way of thinking about them is that they are there to pick up some people who are covid positive who are either too early to display symptoms, or will remain asymptomatic). This prevents them mixing for longer and/or picks up some cases we wouldn't know about otherwise. It's an added extra to reduce transmission, not a control measure, which is why it's important that schools and other workplaces have appropriate risk management procedures rather than relying on tests.

OK but please can you post a link to the evidence so I can read and share?

Here's the government own evidence summary (for care homes)

www.gov.uk/government/publications/evidence-on-the-accuracy-of-lateral-flow-device-testing/evidence-summary-for-lateral-flow-devices-lfd-in-relation-to-care-homes

"a test with 50% sensitivity would detect 25 true positive cases, 25 false negatives (people who would be positive on PCR but negative on the LFD) and 50 false positive cases per 10,000 people tested
with 70% sensitivity you will have 35 true positive cases, 15 false negatives on antigen LFD and 50 false positive cases per 10,000 people tested
with 90% sensitivity you will have 45 true positive cases, 5 false negatives and 50 false positive cases on antigen LFD per 10,000 people tested"

They estimate the sensitivity for self-testing at 58% so you would expect LFTs to miss just under half of positive cases.
Other studies have put self testing with LFTs at much lower sensitivity and we don't have figures for when it's children conducting the test. It should be assumed that more than half of positive cases won't be picked up.

@Xenia

Yes, I respect views on both sides and can see both points of view. People on both sidse are mostly good people with genuine held beliefs and want to help others. Same with most UK voters in elections and referenda. We seem to have lost to an extent the ability to like and respect people with different views. However I understand the horrible impact the CV19 legislation has had on people and the disease itself on those who have suffered from it so not surprisingly a lot of people are very fed up at present and need to take it out on someone. Hitting pillows might be a better idea.

Hopefully by 21 June (freedom day) we might be able to remove every single CV19 legislative measure.

It's only on Mumsnet that I even see "sides" being taken. Most people just do the best they can with a mixture of preventative measures. They also don't think about it or talk about it as much as I see on here. Everyone is just trying to do their best and, surprisingly, hold a variety of views on the subject simultaneously. From what people on here say you'd think everyone had only one of two opinions on the matter.

It is possible. You do not need to have children sitting in your lap and whispering in your ear.

WTAF are you on about. It is not possible, in my classrooms, to maintain 2m social distancing from the kids, which is what is recommended to be able to remove a mask.

[quote Vintagevixen]@toolatetofixate its almost a religious fervour sometimes IMO.

I just want academic proof, really definitive proof. I don't take medical interventions that are unproven, I read the research then make my decision as I have done with vaccines and I am happy to take them.

Its the assumption that if you don't believe in masks you also don't believe in vaccines, or are a Covid denier as well that is irritating.[/quote]

People like to split into camps and fight. It's not reflective of anyone I speak to in real life. There seems to be a desire from some to whip up the panic again.

My dd is exempt but she’s is wearing a mask, tomorrow is her first full day back, she’s really anxious, wearing a mask makes her panic, she has ordered herself those cage things that go inside your mask to take it away from your mouth slightly and she says they are helping.

I can see it from both sides, some kids/adults do really struggle with a mask wether it’s breathing issues, sensory issues or mental health. My daughter has Aspergers and SPD, she hates anything touching her skin and we have enough struggles trying to find a pair of trousers she can tolerate. She’s 17 and she also understands the risks and wants to protect her teachers. All of her class mates are masked and all doing the tests.

My other dd is at a sn school and none of the children are wearing masks, they are all exempt but wear them when on transport. All teachers there have been vaccinated but they all risk contracting covid.